The last few Elder Scrolls games had "Dragon Breaks". I just have few questions about them...

1) TES: II had a Dragon Break for your choices in the Iliac Bay, is because it had to do with the Numidium and Lorkhan's Heart with the Mantella or was it a good way to strip away the many endings of Daggerfall?

2) The Tribunal gained their demi-god powers after a supposed Dragon Break too, I think I read this somewhere or I just might be putting two things together...I know it was the Heart that transformed them but wouldn't it count as a Break?

3) Now there is no exact description of a know Dragon Break except Warp in the West (not really), but Oblivion's Champion witnessed the Avatar of Akatosh, but does this count for a "Dragon Break"? Or is it the destruction of the Amulet of Kings that made Akatosh appear?

1) Both.
2) Yes.
3) No.

this

Ah ha...but why doesn't this count as a Break?


Also The King of Worms in Oblivion was he the same King of Worms in Daggerfall?

I chose him to have the device but doesn't he get turned into a god at the end because of the Break?

He's really weak in OB to be a god...which really upset me.

A Dragon Break is, essentially, a break in time. Just because Akatosh appeared doesn't mean the Dragon broke. Dragon Breaks occur when someone does something huge (usually becoming a god) and the universe gets all confused and needs to retcon itself to make it so that the huge situation has always been the norm (i.e. the Tribunal have always been gods in the current timeline, even though they used to be mortals in a separate one). Nothing like this happened in Oblivion, it was just an avatar of Akatosh coming to fulfill the covenant or something.

Manimarco did turn into a god - the Necromancer's Moon. What remains of him is what we see in Oblivion (I like to think that there are actually 8 separate 'manimarco's, but theres no actual proof for that)

The Dragon Break refers to a break in time (Time = Akatosh = Dragon). Any who, Lady N got it down. When Akatosh appeared to smote Mehrunes Dagon, there wasn't a break it time, just a manifestation of Akatosh to kick Mehrunes Dagon off Mundus, and renew the covenant by having a statue instead of fire.

EDIT: Lady N, would you say the CoC becoming Sheogorath to have caused a Dargon Brayk?

Do the Dragon breaks only apply to Nirn?, With the CoC mantleing Sheogorath, id assume it wouldnt create one, With it happening in Sheogorath's plane.

Bleh, forgot about that part.

Do you think Beth will continue with another Dragon Break in future ES games?

It seems very likely that in some way they have an excuse for what happened in Oblivion (the ending, I mean). With Argonia taking Morrowind and the floating city Umbriel, they could.

Any ways thanks for clearing this up for me.

I've got some posts on this matter in a different thread. The gist of the matter is that a dragon break doesn't happen every time someone becomes a god (see: Tiber), and a dragon break doesn't always involve someone becoming a god (see: Marukhathi).

What is there to resolve at the end of OB? Its a single clear ending, no time breaking necessary.

[edit] http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1095491-is-the-pc-from-arena-still-alive/page__view__findpost__p__16041319.

There is no time in Oblivion? So residents there are permament residents, unless they leave?

Do daedra on Mundus age then?

Why did the numidium and mantella cause a dragon break?

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1103051-orcs-should-have-remained-unplayable/page__view__findpost__p__16155290


Sheogorath says time is present, but different. The line is heard at the wabbajack shrine, once you've completed a portion of the Shivering Isles' mq.

In fact I'd argue that if its possible, what occurred was the exact opposite of a dragon break

It would be used in the main plot if it did. Example, villain breaks the dragon ala Marukhati and shenanigans occur while you race to put things right.

Forgive the old post, but I think it puts forward a much needed perspective on time and how we perceive it.


What if you entered an Oblivion gate at a point in time that I will call Point X. You exit the Mundus and enter a place that is completely unbound from the Aedric rules called time (among other ones). However, being a creature that was created, designed, and spent all your life to assume that time exists, when it no longer applies to you, you undergo what is euphemistically called in the TES world Mortal Mental Stress. In essence, in order to keep your brain from imploding with the different data coming in, you order it from a beginning to an end. Your mind naturally assumes that having entered a gate into Oblivion, then the next chronological step is exiting a gate from the Mundus. So, your mind orders the events to occur chronologically, effectively becoming your own personal Akatosh, applying only to you until you close the gate and are flung from it back into the Mundus. And because your conception of time is concurrent with Akatosh's rate, you land back at the exact time you think that has passed while in Oblivion. While you were away from the circle, it kept spinning.

When did Tiber become a god? I thought that it was during Warp in the West. Also I wouldn't be so certain that no one became a god during the dragon break caused by Marukhati (see: http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/nazzarticle4.shtml)

The Warp in the west happened 300+ years after Tiber's death, and after he used his godly powers to retcon Cyrodiil. He became a god when he finished the mantling process, which, iirc, was just before conquering Sumurset using the Numidium. Even if the Marukhathi became gods, it was not their original intention, and it was the original intention (rather than a possible outcome) that caused the DB.

But the result of the dragon break is that he always has been a god so he could easily retcon Cyrodiil before becoming a god, because he is god before he becomes god :wacko: (how do we actually know when this retcon happened?). As I understand it, the mantling process ended when the Underking got his Mantella back, because he is part of the enantiomorph.

It doesn't really end. Talos (Tiber + Underking) did what they were supposed to and started the 3rd era. What happened afterwards is largely irrelevant, and the Numidium had nothing to do with their apotheosis (though it did help greatly with the conquest). Mantling is an noninvasive procedure, and no dragons are broken.

What is the mantling process?

Im not 100% on this one but from what i understand it is like this: If you move like the duck, Sound like the duck, You become the duck

In basic, yes.
Tiber did this with the Underking and Zurin to mimic the Akatosh and Shor deal (Rebel and King relation). I'd say the CoC becoming Sheogorath is another episode of mantling (CoC is set by Sheo to act like him to the point that people see Sheo and the CoC as the same being, so when Jyggy comes, Sheo will be there to laugh at his face and defeat him)