First i decided not to even bother answering to people who keep saying `ooh its a grind fest i played for 2 days then i uninstalled it` blah blah blah

I played pretty much every MMO hitting market for past 11 years except few asian ones that i cant even spell their names.I played WOW for over 4 years it was my longest lasting one and i retired my hunter the day i completed my T6 set, and WOW is still the best MMO ever been released ,not because it was perfect but because blizzard understood gamer psychology better than anyone else.

And for your information almost all MMO games start when you reach max level..

But what piss me of is different

When a quest giver gives you 2 pages of explanation about and old feud between some rival tribes and wants you to kill some orcs or collect some herbs for some potions or whatever, did you ever read the text, did you try to understand the lore and appreciate the effort of designers.

This is a generation of gamers who didint played wasteland by reading the booklet ,16 colors graphics and some pixels can give you the most amazing gaming experience ,only if you wants to..

Young players of today are fast food customers , no imagination, no respect or patience to absorb the taste of story.

Its sad some people were even complaining about turn-play fight in FO3 ,they wanted better real time no turn-play....really sad..

Yeah a fallout MMO will be bad ,because those kids will again not read the texts and wont care about the story or lore .And because they are the next generation customers game companys will have to create even more ultra-realistic/ultra-shallow games to satisfy customers even declining taste.

I bet my parents were saying the same thing for me when i spend hours front of my commodor and amiga playing those rpgs ,maybe they were thinking `oh we were used to read such good books when we were young` meh all i know this [censored] going downhill, i hope someday it change direction..

So I came onto this thread thinking "No! Not another MMO!" But after reading some of the lengthy comments left by some in favor of MMO's, I began to rethink just why I didn't like them. To make a long story short and cut out all the reasons why I have a dislike for MMO's, I'm considering giving them another try (the only one I've ever tried was Guild Wars and that only lasted a couple hours). I'm the type of RPGer that likes to really get into the game and role-play. I have downloaded hundreds of mods for oblivion that enhances realism and storyline and real tolerance actions. If anybody has any recommendations of an MMO with these characterisics in mind that someone like me would like, I would like to try out an MMO.

This.



And this.

I played a private Ragnarok Online server for just about.. forever. RO was all about partying up with your friends, having your own "town" where you hung out with all your "regulars" or creating a guild and, in consequence, carnage in guild wars and guild PVP. The drama and friendships you experience in MMOs are sometimes more entertaining than a really good story line in a single-player.

But sometimes they're just retarded and that's when you go and spend 600 dollars on a PS3 and bling yourself out on all the latest games. *cough*





Lol, I just got WoW like 2 weeks ago and my friend and I have been trying ruthlessly to get to level 70 before WotLK, 68 now. But I was actually seriously disappointed with the community in my server. Thinking we may switch. It seems they only really want to talk about how much they pwned some hordie the other day or their sweet epic sets. Kind of bland all together. And lots of idiots yelling at each other in trade. None of them have a sense of humour!

My friend and I join a guild..

My friend: Communism? y/n?
Guildmember 1: Wow you're an idiot.
Guildmember 2: Wtf you f&**$#, get out of here.
Guildmember 3: *kick'd*


=[ Crazy people.

If Fallout MMO will be real RPG not RPG like Japanese "role-playing"-games are, I would think about getting it.

What should be done:

- PBan everyone who doesn't RP. If you just kill for fun without any good RP reason, Banhammer! Off-RP in different chat that can be turned off.
- No grinding for EXP. It would be called wandering the wastelands.
- If your character dies you cant play with it anymore. Of course there would be way to testament stuff for chars daughters and sons.
- Every equip can be used by everyone, limits with money and repairing stuff. Technically a starter could get PA but someone could just kill him and take it. But other players don't like murderers, because it gives bad karma to hang with bad persons.
- NPCs dont like evil chars. If you kill just "everyplayer" dont expect to get quests, missions, shop or services from good NPCs.

This would lead to player population 23 players.... So MMO"RPG"s are going to grinding for our life-time...

I don't play MMO's, except Guild Wars, because:

1. I hate paying fees - why should I pay for a game then pay to play it?
2. The f*cked up "economies" - why is X worth Y just because some idiot says so?
3. Grouping - Gaming should be me against the game, nothing more.
4. Being called a newbie all the time because I don't have 20 hours out of every 28 to play a damn game.
5. Grinding for XP and the game never ending - what's the point?
6. Losing XP when you die (may be just in Everquest, correct me if I'm wrong)

Yeah, I liked GW and played it, not because RPG (There wasnt any), but enjoyability and relaxing feeling when I didn't have to grind all the time. But then they did rebalance some glyph that made healing everyone to max hp with quarter mana all time with monk possible (Badly told, fast explain = No one could die) and I got bored because all of my builds relied on it...

I still wish to have real MMORPG...

An RP server in WoW might suit your needs. The chat and name guidelines are heavily enforced (has to be one word non popular fantasy names, so nothing like Gandalf,Legolas,AnnoyingSniperDude). On the more higher pop ones (I was on Silverhand) you would always find even the highest level people sitting in the Inn at Goldshire trading stories of ye olde past accomplishments.

Not to mention some of the higher pops hold server wide rp Functions and guilds in particular host events.







1. Server fees,GM wages,content development and so on. You are paying for entertainment, just like you would go to a movie and pay to watch it. WoW has shown this side of MMOs is not a huge deal, if you do not like it no one is making you play it.

2. Because that person spent the time to farm it and he can sell it for what he wants? Before the expansion after every BWL raid I would take my mage water and food and go out to Winterspring and solo farm those horribly overpowered elite demons for Eyes Of Shadow (priest item needed for the epic staff quest). While I charged an arm and a leg lets just say I already had enough for the epic flying mount before BC ever hit

3. Apparently you are missing the point of "MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER". Honestly at his point it should just be obvious your input on MMOs is not exactly helpful as your biased from the start.

4. Yes you will find elitist in online games just as you will in real life. WoW is probably the most casual friendly MMO on the market. Especially true considering the wellfare epics badgegear/pvp gear and so on. Not to mention those daily quest which make gold farming a thing of the past if you just have a little patience.

Also as far as leveling, rested XP gives ppl who do not play that much a nice boost to keep going.

5. Here we go back into you really should not be playing online games at all. The most WoW will ever ask you to grind (except in rare cases where its an item for some super elite quest and what not) would be kill X amount of mountain lions because they are terrorizing our village and so on. Honestly I never ran into problems with these types of quest and I burned past em fairly easy. Ever tried doing the Nagrand Safari quest on a holy paladin solo? That [censored] aint fun

As far as the game never ending that is just what MMO's are all about. It is a constantly changing world and part of the fun for everyone is that they are building up characters that live and interact in said world. It is not for everyone but WoW has shown just how popular MMO's could be. I can think of no other game that has brought so many people from so diverse backgrounds together in an online game.

6. WoW does not do this.

I didn't know what an MMO was till i googled it.....i doubt they would make it like that but, if thats cool then make it, I know im not going to buy it, i cannot stand people playing World of War Craft and whatever else is out there. I like my RPG just like fallout 1 and 2....screw fallout 3 not enough dirt on fallout 3 then it is in fallout 1 and 2, CRACKED OUT [censored]S, hardcoe porm, AND DRUGS THAT GET YOU F-UP!!!! thats what bethesda should be thinking instead of nice [censored]s, softcoe porm...wait i mean no porm, and drugs that I couldn't get additcted to like in fallout 1 and 2..... i remember the days of being addicted to nuka cola...sniff I remember getting poisoned cause i was a fluffer, I also remember having one ear....I also remember not wearing a jimmy hat and having a kid....he he i swear its not mine.... the good old days are gone

Why?

Why? you ask me why..... to answer this simple question, i'm just going to say, some people take World of War Craft to serious. Like thats all they do is play these games like it was real.... I'm a hardcoe gamer but I have a life, somepeople not saying all don't have a life and live in there rooms playing these type of games thinking it's real... this is why i cannot stand people playing these type of games, they have no life they just sit down on the computer and play them, get out and explore the real world and yes you could still have fun by playing video games cause I love video games but I do real things instead of staying in and playing video game 24/7

What do they do to you? Maybe if a mob of them came to your house and dragged you away to a basemant and tried to convert you to some odd cult like religion I could understand you disliking them. You cannot group a player base as large as "WoW" into the same stereotypical no life group.

As I said before the game is far to diverse and has to many people. There were married couples,people with kids,full time jobs and all sorts of types in my guild. A cheerleader from my high school even had a night elf rogue. Anecdotal evidence I know but regardless the point still stands.

I played Warcraft a few months after release up until a little over a yearish ago. On a good average day I would clock 6-8 hours in but still found time to have a girlfriend and keep a social life. I also skipped school once to finish a 17 hour AV.

With that said there are also people who log on for a couple hours a night and log back off. My world history teacher in highschool had a Tauren hunter he would barley get to play at all except for a few hours on the weekend and he always had a blast with it.

I was hoping you would have a reason bit better, honestly complaining about a game because you have stereotyped its player base? I would rather hear people tell me about how lame it is that mountain lions do not always drop eyes .

I play alot of Ultima Online on free shards but only in Roleplaying Guilds and Alliances or on servers dedicated to roleplayers only (those shards average about 10 to 50 players online at a time). The interaction with others interested in roleplaying is what makes that fun for me; but yeah you do have Chuck Norris wander by and beg for currency on occasion.

I find the idea of a Fallout MMO interesting. Granted I do hate grinding ie: collect "X" amout of items to get "X" amount of Gear/Xp. However there are some MMO's that do not have grinding. One I play currently is Dungeons and Dragons online. You can collect stuff that npc's want but it is traded for usefull items and its optional. You also get Xp for completing individual quests not how many monsters you kill. Also in each quest the fighter damage dealer class wont soak up all the Xp because all enemy kills count for the entire party. I'd play a Fallout 3 MMO if it is inovative and not a grinder like 90% of the MMO's on the market.

QFT. In fact, it's how FO3 should have worked, but I digress.

The only MMO I've even considered buying and playing recently is Eve Online. With nearly all MMO's, there was almost no possible way for any player - even one at maximum level - to have any sort of lasting effect on the game world, unless you happen to be the best, which generally speaking, defeats the purpose. Even if you're a guild leader, you're one of thousands, and even if your guild is placed number one, you still don't get a say in what goes on in the world.
Most of my friends played WOW until uni, work or significant others svcked up their time, and they tried to introduce me to it a couple of times. Every max-level WOW character seemed to be a clone of some archetype; if you're a paladin (or class X), there's an optimal attack combo, gear set and tactic that a thousand other paladins use. There's no uniqueness. You do quests that every one of those thousand paladins did - and you can't even say any of those quests did anything in the game world.
Did killing those seventeen Death Demons really make the town safer? No, because they'll just respawn for the next lot to come through.
Are they really threatening the town? If no players showed up to kill them, the town and all the NPC's are still going to be there.
Are they actually any danger at all? No, unless you're too low a level and walked in before you read the "You must be level X to be here" sign.
Sure, there's one or two exceptions. But they're exceptions that confirm the rule.

The point is, I'm not going to sink away at least 3 hours a day to make a character who, despite being impressively powerful, is in the grand scheme of things neither unique nor has any meaningful impact on the game world.

mmo's are fun because you play with other people.(and i agree grinding xp is boring if you are not playing first time

One of the problems with a Fallout MMO is that it will, unless extremely well done and thought out, never capture the spirit of "Wasteland survival" which is one of the major draws of the Fallout universe. It'd simply be too difficult to explain away the fact that people can be ressurected after dying or not mutating into hideous mutants after being dumped into a FEV Vat during a boss fight. That is unless, as someone mentioned earlier, your character could actually permanently die and would pass on his items (except those carried) to his heir. This kind of system could actually work if it was a MMO without levels (much like the original SWG), but knowing MMO developers of todays day and age, no-one would have the balls to create such a system as it wouldn't naturally be capable of retaining subscriptions. I mean, let's face it - the reason that MMO's most often have umpteen levels is not only to express your characters improvement in potence through a double digit number, but it's also a way of keeping people subsribed to the game becuase people naturally want to see what happens when that number can't get any higher.

In conclusion, I'd say no a Fallout MMO would not work out well while still staying true to the legacy of the old games unless a considerable paradigm change happens in the way MMO's are designed as consumer products - as long as MMOs are about subscription retention and not creating enticing and "living" online worlds, an eventual Fallout MMO will completely shame the legacy of the orginal IP and would be Fallout only of name, much the same way Fallout Tactics and Fallout: BOS are not considered "proper" Fallout games.

If you want to change the world play single player games. Yes a lot of people use the same cookie cutter builds for pvp/raiding but that is because they want to do the best they can in the environment they are playing in.

Honestly I am seeing so many complaints from people who have the wrong idea about mmos/should never even play online games. Also for the "90% grindfest people" if you have to grind to level in World Of Warcraft clearly you fail at online gaming and need to go back to playing single player rpgs.

I am not trying to troll or be harsh but WoW is terribly easy to hit the max level cap in. Most* people who play also find something enjoyable endgame as well be it pvp/raids or w/e.

It's more than just kill X amount of Y.

Play a real MMO and you would know that.

You havent addressed the issue. Near level PVP (Real PVP) I dont have a problem with. However, what you are saying is that you are so bored, you've decided to be completely selfish and ruin the game for everyone else. Congratulations. I hope I never meet you in real life.



The problem is is that we have no issue with PvP - Maybe we even enjoy it. What we have a problem with is those who deliberately go out of their way to ruin the game for everyone else. That is what you are doing, you can dress it up anyway you like to ease your concious, but each time you gank, you ruin the game for someone. Its like being the kid that beats up the other kids in school.


yeah, there's also go here and deliver this, and keep killing until you get the random drop.

In a nutshell that is everything that is wrong with most MMOs right there.

I am sorry you failed to read the different server types upon character creation. If you cant take the way pvp servers are played xfer off to a care bear server. No one is stopping you that is for sure.

Plenty of people love pvp servers, if you do not want to deal with ganking/world pvp just go to a normal server and arena/bg for your pvp fix.




Once again, you do not have to play on a pvp server and be perma flagged unless you want to. Many people enjoy pvp servers, everyone gets ganked and when you are a high level you get a chance to gank back. If you do not like it once again the normal servers are waiting for your xfer.

I played SWG when it first came out for about a month and a half. I played WoW for about 2 years. Tried Guild Wars(didn't get into it cause I was all used up from wow).

Anyway, the funnest part of WoW was exploring! It took me forever to get to level 60 but I didn't stop playing the game until I explored everywhere and completed almost every quest. I grouped, raided, PvP'd. So when i've seen all the game has to offer then the game was over.

I couldn't do it against because I can't spend another 2 years of my life grinding at a game.


If they do the Fallout MMO to not have such a huge grind, or where levels aren't that big a deal I would get into it for a while. Problem is, like someone else said, all the MMO games coming out are trying to capture the WoW market. The entire game is almost identical but just in a different world with slightly different tweaks to problems that players complained about.
The 2 flaws in a MMORPG is:
huge gap in Wargear. If you don't have that purple wargear then your character is basically useless.
Huge stat differences in levels: level 1 you have 50 health, level 60 you have 5000 health!

Now take a look at the fallout games. I'll use fallout 3 as an example because its been years since I've played 1 or 2. At level 1 you have something like 200 health. at level 20 you have what? 500? Your gear. In the early game your Damage Resist is about 10-20(depending on durability) and at level 20 its 50ish with the power armour and a perk here or there?
The perks aren't game breaking abilities, there more fun and give you a big of an edge. And what about the skills? if you got a low gun skill then you do slightly less dmg because your not as accurate and don't know how to use the weapon as well. A high level character has been traveling the wastes for some time so knows how to use a gun with a steady hand and shoot the enemies head to get a 'kill shot'. This doesn't mean a low level character can't kill a high level character, its just harder to do.

And as for wargear. look at fallout and think about it. Is there that big a difference between enclave and brotherhood armour? Normal Combat armour and Ranger Combat armour? Various leather armour etc... They have minor stuff like + 5 or 10 to guns or rad resistance. Stuff that gives you an edge, not make you overpowered.

Now if a online fallout game is able to capture the essense of fallout in gameplay instead of just the setting(fallout tactics, brotherhood of steel, etc...) then it will be a good game.

You would go out and travel the wastes as a level one, you'd step on mines, get rad poisoning, waste 5 clips of ammo trying to kill a dog, etc... but a higher level guy would disarm the mines and take it as loot, knows how to use radaway, and kill the dog with 3 bullets.

Theres a bunch of different races you could be too!
Human, Goul, mutant, .... mirelurk? ok theres not that many races but think of the FACTIONS!

Brotherhood, Enclave, Raiders, Slavers. There could be different Mutant Tribes. Gouls have their underworld(or similar place like the nuclear plant in Fallout 2).

And it doesn't have to be Side A (alliance, Order, etc..) vs Side B (chaos, horde, evil, etc...) Its the factions vs each other. Radiers control certain areas, slavers other areas, etc... Some Factions are at active war with the others, some not. Brotherhood vs Enclave, Mutants vs Humans, etc.. You'd have loose alliances Gouls and Mutants, Gouls and brotherhood. Slavers and Raiders, Slavers and Enclave, etc...
As for PvP theres the invading different zones and controlling it. Obviously Home towns or 'HQ' couldnt' be taken over but you could raid the crap out of it for slaves and supplies.

I don't mind things like Arenas for PvP but I really like the in main world PvP where your with your party on some quest and you happen by an enemy party and fights start out. That is what makes the game fun.
WoW had this but they really destroyed it with that honor system. Made people not want to raid towns.


Anyway, hope this isn't too long and people don't just think I'm rambling.

I don't understand the hatred that is often traded back and forth when people discover that someone else likes a different game than they do... Not that I'm saying there's nothing more in this thread, but there's enough of it to illustrate the phenomenon (heck, just search YouTube for the hate videos flying back and forth between Gears of War and Resistance players.. sheesh). MMO play and single player RPG play are simply two sides of the same coin. In both you create and develop a character to suit your own playstyle within a defined set of parameters (in most games these parameters are a matter of character class). Why do so many MMO players feel threatened by single player folks, or vice-versa? I'll never understand it.

Anyway, that aside, I've played a couple of MMOs (Dark Age of Camelot and WoW) and ultimately came to the conclusion that they just don't suit my playstyle. I tend to get more enjoyment from accomplishing things on my own that move my character forward. In the MMOs I've played, once you hit the level cap there aren't many goals that can be accomplished without relying on other people. That's fine for the people who enjoy it, it's just not for me. Once I came to accept that simple fact, I cancelled my WoW subscription and haven't looked back.

I may try out a Fallout MMO, I really can't say. I don't imagine I'd stick with it long after capping out, but I'd try to enjoy the journey, at least.

In closing, allow me to apologize if anything I've said here has come across as an attack against anyone. Nothing here is intended as such. I'm just looking for some understanding of why I see the vitriol, or an explanation of what it is I am seeing if I've misinterpreted.

Well the Gears of War and Resistance thing is more of a console war issue so naturally it is going to cause some serious flame wars.

I do agree on your MMO issue tho, people who do not like them seem to LOVE to get online and tell the world exactly how they feel. We need not link the number of WoW subscribers and prove MMOs are insanely popular and growing.

I really do wish people would attack the game play more than retarded arguments like "UGH ITS A GRINDFEST!!11!" when they make statements like that they lose pretty much all credibility.

I still do not understand where people get the idea that WoW is a grindfest :shrug: