In Morrowind and Oblivion the "good" people who worship the nine divines, hate daedra and necromancy, yet they summon undead or daedric creatures. Wouldn't that be considered evil magic? A bit hypocritical, no?

Why so?
This is as evil as forcing a maffia guy to help you defend your brother from other maffia guys.

You just have to be careful so that you can really trust that maffia guy you forced to your service because he could turn against you...

"Good" is a very relative term. A "good" Dunmer would approve of religious necromacy and worship Azura, Mephala, and Boethiah, for example.

And in the subject of Daedra and necromancy, they are not consider "evil" or "evil magic" right away.

I know that, but those who worship the Nine Divines would think so.

The dunmer are crazy. I was thinking more about those who worship the Nine.

No, not really. The Daedra are considered the "16 acceptable blasphemes." While their worship is not exactly encouraged, its not outlawed or automatically considered evil.

I think of it as Religion Vs Religion. Hell, in Daggerfall, each Eight Divine got their own following and some of them consider each other rivals.

I see.

For assorted, good people reasons.

The Temple - the Imperial Cult - had incorporated the Princes of Misrule into their gods' realms of judgment, by naming them "blasphemous." By naming them "acceptable," their priesthoods had the power to cordon worship, build temples of the Princes, and collect tributes from their worshipers. By allowing 16 more spirits into your pantheon, the people now have 16 more spirits to placate. Since religion is free, some simply moved their alters out of the public eye, and the Temple was never zealous enough to care. Just greedy enough to enjoy the bilking they were giving everyone else.


No. No, it isn't. Distinguish reality from fantasy, you'll find that there is evil, and the mafia is not... whatever delusion you follow.

The point of a good RPG, like TES, is that there is no black/white good/bad.

Even Dagon is just the Leper king

I'll second that! Do I hear a third? Anyone?!

That's inaccurate. In Morrowind, Daedra worship is sanctioned by the Temple as another form of Ancestor worship.

Daedra aren't synonymous with demons, and most people in Tamriel, save probably the Alessian-Order throwback fanatics know that.

I beg to differ, several fine RPG's have had a good-bad (or something similar) system.

Edit: And said systems did not detract from the games, but improved the experience.

*Nods head*

Key words: like TES. I think he means open-world games influenced by a Nietzschean worldview which doesn't dump a morality system on the player's head.

Why wouldn't they? What's inherently more evil about summoning a Dremora to kill someone than doing it with a sword or fireball?

Especially since daedra aren't evil, just...different. The average ones are completely alien, and the princes are god-like, so how does one apply human morality to them?

Even ignoring that, whether you kill someone with magic, a sword or with a Daedra you're still killing them, right? It's like the difference between strangling your wife and hiring a hitman to do it. Does the moral affiliation of the hitman really matter? Aren't you serving either Destruction (Mehrunes Dagon) or Murder (Mephala) or both either way?

I would think so, as the Daedra are bound to do your bidding. Of course, especially with inexperienced summoners, there's a risk that the Daedra could break free of your control and turn on you. I can't imagine that Daedra enjoy being yanked from wherever they were, from whatever they were doing, and forced to serve the mortal that pulled them to Tamriel.

I concur.

The book 'On Oblivion' says that the guy summoned Deadra to interview them and learn more about them, he isn't evil---just curious.

There is no good or evil in TES, only shades of gray.

Magic is not inherently evil, its how you use it. Just like any other tool or weapon. Usually, its a matter of perspective. A nation using hordes of Daedra against another nation would be seen by their enemies as evil summoners of evil daedric spirits. Their allies would see them as intelligent and skilled summoners.

As for the Daedra, they aren't evil or good anyways. They do what is best for themselves or their lords, just like most mortals.

As for daedra turning on their summoners, I think I'd be pretty pissed off if I was relaxing in my domain and then got teleported to another dimension, forced to fight something, and then probably die, return to the soup of Oblivion for an indeterminate amount of time, then reform and maybe have to do it again. Even worse is if I get permanently forced into submission, as with the famous dremora Anhaedra (and all of his colorful dialogue).