Why i think buildings and dungeons will be seperate cells

Post » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:53 pm

I don't care if there are separate cells for dungeons (seriously, people? The loading screens weren't even that long in Morrowind or Oblivion.) as long as beast-inhabited caves don't have doors again, that was just dumb. Although, bandit caves with doors could make sense since they could have easily just built a door to keep the elements out.
User avatar
Guinevere Wood
 
Posts: 3368
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:06 pm

Post » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:56 am

I don't care if there are separate cells for dungeons (seriously, people? The loading screens weren't even that long in Morrowind or Oblivion.) as long as beast-inhabited caves don't have doors again, that was just dumb. Although, bandit caves with doors could make sense since they could have easily just built a door to keep the elements out.


yeah but what to you propose instead? a flat black surface?

maybe the entrance appears to be part of the open world but once you take few steps in then it loads
User avatar
Baby K(:
 
Posts: 3395
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:07 pm

Post » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:08 pm

Link?

Yeah this was confirmed a LOONNNG time ago. It would take a few hours to sift through Pete's old Tweets. Like right after the GI article.

Anyways I think it would be cool if they put all the parts of a house in a single cell. Like there were the shops in the Imperial City that had the main shop, the basemant, and the private quarters. All of those were loaded separately. I didn't care for that. I mean that at the very least could be done to alleviate some load times. Heck, if they managed packages differently than how they did in Oblivion they could have had most of the houses all in one cell.
User avatar
Robert
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:58 am

Post » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:09 pm

I, for one, like the separation of cells oddly enough. Not really sure how to explain that one. Either way doesn't bother me but I prefer the separate cells.
User avatar
Campbell
 
Posts: 3262
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:54 am

Post » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:35 pm

yeah but what to you propose instead? a flat black surface?

maybe the entrance appears to be part of the open world but once you take few steps in then it loads


That might work, or it could simply be something like New Vegas where the cave opening was the activator for the cell transition just like the doors were, it just had a different look to it.
User avatar
:)Colleenn
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:03 am

Post » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:37 am

What exactly do you mean by "different cells"?


No loading screen when you enter a building. Meaning, you click the door, the door swings open, and there's the interior of the building. The reason this can't happen is because with all the details of separate interiors as well as the details of exteriors, it's too much to handle. The game would crash.
User avatar
courtnay
 
Posts: 3412
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:49 pm

Post » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:10 pm

:facepalm: Morrowind had the same system as Oblivion. The only difference is that in Skyrim the cities are open. Like Morrowind...

I'm pretty sure everyone knows this... And that's what I said... I prefer Morrowind's system over Oblivion's... because of the open cities. Facepalm?
User avatar
Ladymorphine
 
Posts: 3441
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:22 pm

Post » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:47 pm

I was quite serious. But I wasn't talking about land size. I'm not even sure how you arrived at that.

I am talking about the implementation of open cities and how believable they are within the game world.

Oblivion:
Oblivion's lack of open cities was bad. It really couldn't be helped given what Bethesda had to work with at the time. But not everything about Oblivion cities was bad. What Oblivion did right was having walled cities with specific points of entry. Unfortunately the gates did not lock as you would expect in a land where daedra are attempting to overrun your world.

Morrowind:
Open cities, yay. Problem is, the cities are far TOO open. Morrowind is (was) locked in an ongoing civil war between the great houses. I can understand shanty towns like Hla Oad being undefended. I can even understand Balmora, being more open to western influences having an open door policy. But Ald'ruhn? Allowing anyone to freely come and go as they please? With assassins running around? Sadrith Mora? Where it's illegal walk around town without hospitality papers? Most towns have walls, but these walls do nothing. What you see in game conflicts with what's happening according to lore.

Daggerfall:
On the other hand, we have Daggerfall. An ongoing war between Daggerfall, Wayrest, and Sentinel necessitates the use of walled off cities. But these walls have purpose! They lock at night to keep vampires, were-beasts, highwaymen, invading armies, door-to-door salesmen, etc., away. The average citizen cannot levitate on command, or scale walls. But these do not hold back our intrepid adventurer.

As it pertains to Skyrim, simply doing what Morrowind did is going to lead to another unbelievable, under utilized instance of open cities. Again, another civil war is rocking Skyrim, but none of the cities have gates? Or lock them at night? Ridiculous. What we need is open cities as seen in Daggerfall. Minor unprotected cities like Hla Oad. With big, powerful cities (like those at war with one another) should have high walls, gates, and most importantly, be locked at night. This would give levitation a real use, even if scaled back from the Daggerfall/Morrowind implementation of free flight. To adjust to the lack of climbing, cities could be entered by drainage areas, or by intelligently placed boxes, wagons, and other such things.

Having NPCs with believable schedules, where they travel during the day, and get inside by nightfall would do wonders for believability and make infiltrating a city at night for thieves and assassins that much more enjoyable.



i think it depends really they havnt confirmed gates don't close at night and there are no gated city .. like a locked cloud ruler temple. in some scenes the mountains seem like a really good natural wall

the waterfront can be a defence but in this picture notice the top left corner there is an inner core with a door. and it looks like theres some settlements on the outskirts . i thing this is good as not all cities are walled of end of with just all winderness outside [img]http://s801.photobucket.com/albums/yy297/b_harrison/skyrim/?action=view¤t=skyrim_gameplay_settlement1.jpg[/img]
User avatar
ashleigh bryden
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:43 am

Post » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:24 am

Some people doesn't seem to be aware of some technical info.

When a game "loads" what happens is that the data included in the dvd (or hard disc) is transferred to the system's RAM.
If you add more things to an open world area,the loading screens will be fewer but will long much longer,and you also need more RAM.
I've played a game recentely,S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat.
It's an exclusive to PCs,a free roaming rpg/fps that has a large open space to explore,and it has interiors,caves and everything loading at the same loading screen,making it so you can be playing for hours going to places and doing stuff without a loading screen.

But for loading all interiors at the same time,the game had to sacrifice something else to free some RAM,and it sacrificed texture quality.
So everybody who sees a picture or two of the game now,says "this game looks like s**t" because it doesn't have Crysis quality textures.
I'm sure Bethesda could make it so in Skyrim you can walk in buildings or caves without having to watch loading screens...
But then,the texture quality would make people bash the game for it's "bad graphics".
We can't have everything.
Stalker CoP needed 2 gbs of RAM at XP for dx9 graphics (which look like a 2005 game) or 4 for dx11 graphics.
BUT...
Consoles have something like half a gigabyte of RAM, 1/4 of what Stalker used.
And Skyrim's world is larger than stalker's for sure.
I imagine if Bethesda wanted Skyrim to load the whole world in a single loading screen,would have to use ps2 quality textures and then everybody would go "Come on these are 10 year old graphics!!".
Someone would have to have something like a 6core computer with 8 or more gigabytes of RAM to run Skyrim with it's actual graphics but with everything loading the same time.
But then it wouldn't ran on consoles..
User avatar
BaNK.RoLL
 
Posts: 3451
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:55 pm

Post » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:12 pm

I dont expect they would change their formula any time soon. I'm not happy about it, but I dont hate it either. I didnt really mind Oblivion that much for doing that, it maximizes engine potential
User avatar
Jack Walker
 
Posts: 3457
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:25 pm

Post » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:26 pm

This still surprises me. I for one, understand that loading all the interiors of a city at the same time as the exterior is, at best, impractical. However, the current system, of dumping the surrounding city and loading the much smaller interior with the character already in it, is fairly flawed, at least for stealth based characters. I still propose that when you attempt to load an interior, you get a load screen, as the game loads that ONE buildings interior IN ADDITION to the existing, loaded exterior. After the load, the character is still standing just outside the unopened door of a now "live" interior. Meaning the concept of staking out the building through windows or such could finally be realized, and thieves wouldn't ever "pop" into a front room of a house to find themselves being stared at by its owner! Of course, now that the door functions like an interior door, concepts like bashing it open could return.

Additionally, this means if you are in a house, or own a house, you would be able to look out and see the city around you! A far cry better then the bunker/ cave houses of Oblivion and Morrowind.

And, of course, Skyrim is a single player game, meaning the player could only ever be in one interior at a time. As the player leaves a building by a certain distance, the interior is "dumped" and returns to opaque windows.

Other then the fact that the "cave"/ "alternate realm of existence" houses are kind of strange and not aesthetically pleasing, they are rather crippling to thieves. I can understand how this could be viewed as a lesser issue for fighter or magic-user players, but please try to understand the impact on burglars!

I think this seems like a very reasonable work around to the interior/ exterior dilemma, but then again, I don't make video games. If someone who DOES could explain how my logic is flawed, I'd appreciate the knowledge.
User avatar
Stu Clarke
 
Posts: 3326
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:45 pm

Post » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:19 pm

Its not that its flawed, per say, but the coding and implementation would most likely be extremely time/resource consuming and more likely just plain difficult to actually do.

side, note:

Unless this was a core piece of the development cycle.
User avatar
CYCO JO-NATE
 
Posts: 3431
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:41 pm

Previous

Return to V - Skyrim