Questions about combat : IV

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:57 am

Sorry for my English below.

Fact:
- I have to admit that I did not play vanilla Oblivion too much so I do not know whether the "problems" occured are normal.
- I have installed FCOM, Supreme Magicka and LAME with a rebuilt bashed patch.

Question 1:
Once I encountered enemies, they kept running towards me instead of attacking me. I tried to hit them and they did not fight back. Just after about 10sec, they started to attack me.

Question 2:
The health bar did not exist when I attack a enemy (no matter using magic or weapon), I cannot deal ANY damage to the enemy in this moment. The health bar will occur after 10sec or even with a longer time (random) , so that I can only deal damage to them after the health bar occured..

These 2 questions made me frustrated as the combat experience has been totally deteriorated.
Anyone can answer me and give me certain advice to these problems?

Thanks

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:22 pm

1. Sounds like AI overload or a mod conflict, definitely not normal. What is your framerate, does it always happen or only when there is a large number of NPCs around you?

2. The health bar only starts to show up on enemies who have lost a certain amount of health (50%? can't remember). As long as they still have most of their health you won't see a health bar. That is how it is in the vanilla game, it's not a problem caused by mods.

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:47 am

Thank you Phitt,

1. While I combat, the FPS are about 30-60 (in cell) and 15-30(in wild) depend on how many humanoid (I have installed high texture skin). This problem occur at a probabilty of around 80% even there is only one NPC/Creature.

2. hmm.. you have point out a good fact that vanilla Oblivion started to show health bar at about 50%. However, for me, health bar occur with a FULL HP. I have installed http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3774 , maybe this mod changes the texture of original 50%health to 100%health! Let me check it out. :laugh:

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:02 am

Sorry for my English below.

Fact:
- I have to admit that I did not play vanilla Oblivion too much so I do not know whether the "problems" occured are normal.
- I have installed FCOM, Supreme Magicka and LAME with a rebuilt bashed patch.

Question 1:
Once I encountered enemies, they kept running towards me instead of attacking me. I tried to hit them and they did not fight back. Just after about 10sec, they started to attack me.

Question 2:
The health bar did not exist when I attack a enemy (no matter using magic or weapon), I cannot deal ANY damage to the enemy in this moment. The health bar will occur after 10sec or even with a longer time (random) , so that I can only deal damage to them after the health bar occured..

These 2 questions made me frustrated as the combat experience has been totally deteriorated.
Anyone can answer me and give me certain advice to these problems?

Thanks

What Phitt said, almost:

1. Yes, sounds like AI overload. Try using an FCOM reduced spawn esp. Also, you might want to remove some mods adding NPCs if using such. Note that you must wait for a respawn (i.e. four days if on default) for the reduced spawns to take effect.

2. That's probably caused by MMM giving enemies "individualized"/random stats. When it gives +100% health, you won't see the health bar before it gets under 100.

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:37 pm

2. The health bar only starts to show up on enemies who have lost a certain amount of health (50%? can't remember). As long as they still have most of their health you won't see a health bar. That is how it is in the vanilla game, it's not a problem caused by mods.

No, I believe you're wrong here. I think the bar shows up as soon as the current health is below the base health.

But FCOM makes some enemies stronger by increasing their current health way above their base health by various means, which means that you must chuck away the buffed health above the base health before you see the health bar.

E.g. an enemy has base health 200, but FCOM gives him a current health of 300 (e.g. fortifiy health). The engine doesn't care about this, so will start to display the health bar as soon as the enemy's health goes below 200 - which makes him seem invulnerable while you fight to get him down from 300 to 200 health. This bothers me a bit too, but maybe (very maybe) I can think up a bar for my HUD Status Bars mod that only displays when you fight an enemy whose current health is above his base health, showing how much you have reduced his health towards the base health.

Edit: ninja'd by Arkngt :ph34r:

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:56 pm

What Phitt said, almost:

1. Yes, sounds like AI overload. Try using an FCOM reduced spawn esp. Also, you might want to remove some mods adding NPCs if using such. Note that you must wait for a respawn (i.e. four days if on default) for the reduced spawns to take effect.

2. That's probably caused by MMM giving enemies "individualized"/random stats. When it gives +100% health, you won't see the health bar before it gets under 100.

Thank you Arkngt,

1. I have been installed with reduced spawn esp already and I just deleted Crowded City+Road before a new game :blush2: Also, this is a new game and so it should be taking effect. Sigh..

2. Thank you for explaining the detail of MMM :blush:

I wanna ask a extra question here. Is the CPU affects how well the game handle AI? And does this game support a REAL multi-core processing?
I have a lot of mods running OBSE. eg Enhanced Economy, PiiiP and so on. It would be quite tough to single core processing.

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:03 pm

I wanna ask a extra question here. Is the CPU affects how well the game handle AI? And does this game support a REAL multi-core processing?

AI handling is one of the two real causes of slowdown. The other is graphical enhancers (but is more taxing on the GPU). And Oblivion doesn't really handle multi-core processing at all. So processor speed is really all that matters for the processor

I have a lot of mods running OBSE. eg Enhanced Economy, PiiiP and so on. It would be quite tough to single core processing.

Mods than don't add NPCs with AI or enhance the graphics matters very little for your processor. Script handling takes almost no time compared to the other two factors.

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:41 pm

Thank you Arkngt,

1. I have been installed with reduced spawn esp already and I just deleted Crowded City+Road before a new game :blush2: Also, this is a new game and so it should be taking effect. Sigh..

2. Thank you for explaining the detail of MMM :blush:

I wanna ask a extra question here. Is the CPU affects how well the game handle AI? And does this game support a REAL multi-core processing?
I have a lot of mods running OBSE. eg Enhanced Economy, PiiiP and so on. It would be quite tough to single core processing.

Post your load order via Wrye Bash: Right-click the File-header > List mods > Paste into post

I'm using FCOM_SpawnRatesStronger.esp (which has the same spawn rate as FCOM_SpawnRatesSlightlyReduced.esp) and it works perfectly on my steam powered rig (AMD Athlon 64 3500+...), so something might pop up if seeing your load order.

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:14 pm

No, I believe you're wrong here. I think the bar shows up as soon as the current health is below the base health.

But FCOM makes some enemies stronger by increasing their current health way above their base health by various means, which means that you must chuck away the buffed health above the base health before you see the health bar.

E.g. an enemy has base health 200, but FCOM gives him a current health of 300 (e.g. fortifiy health). The engine doesn't care about this, so will start to display the health bar as soon as the enemy's health goes below 200 - which makes him seem invulnerable while you fight to get him down from 300 to 200 health. This bothers me a bit too, but maybe (very maybe) I can think up a bar for my HUD Status Bars mod that only displays when you fight an enemy whose current health is above his base health, showing how much you have reduced his health towards the base health.

Edit: ninja'd by Arkngt :ph34r:

Thank you TheNiceOne, your mods are excellent!
Cheers :foodndrink:
I just hope that you would update the HUD Status Bars with enemies' health. :celebration:
I am now using and displaying the encumbrance.

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:46 am

Post your load order via Wrye Bash: Right-click the File-header > List mods > Paste into post

I'm using FCOM_SpawnRatesStronger.esp (which has the same spawn rate as FCOM_SpawnRatesSlightlyReduced.esp) and it works perfectly on my steam powered rig (AMD Athlon 64 3500+...), so something might pop up if seeing your load order.

I am using FCOM_SpawnRatesStronger.esp too. :wink_smile: (hate the smile always adding to a wrong position :shocking:)
Actually, I cannot imagine that you are running a A64 3500+

I would be very appreciate that you looking for my load order, it really take time.
Thank you.

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  TR_OoT_Main.esm02  GTAesgaard_2.esm03  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.0]04  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]05  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]06  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.69]07  Harvest[Containers].esm08  Harvest[Containers] - Flat-Top Barrels Add-on.esm09  Harvest[Containers] - Havok Crates Add-on.esm0A  Harvest[Containers] - Player Home Add-on.esm0B  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]0C  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]0D  VASE - core.esm0E  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]0F  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]10  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]11  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]12  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3]13  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]14  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp15  DLCShiveringIsles.esp16  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]17  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp18  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp19  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp1A  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp1B  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp1C  Francesco's Dark Seducer Weapons Patch.esp1D  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1E  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1F  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]**  LoadingScreens.esp20  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.0]21  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.0]22  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.0]23  Immersive Interiors.esp24  Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp25  Symphony of Violence.esp26  AmbientTownSounds.esp27  MIS.esp28  MIS New Sounds Optional Part.esp29  Atmospheric Oblivion.esp2A  WindowLightingSystem.esp2B  Akatosh Mount By Saiden Storm.esp2C  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp2D  DropLPUI.esp2E  ImprovedSigns.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.78]2F  P1DmenuEscape.esp30  Oblivion Cats v0.2b.esp31  Oblivion Collectible Cards.esp32  PrivateQuarters.esp  [Version 2.33]33  Harvest[Containers] - SI - Ore Respawn.esp34  Harvest[Containers] - Vanilla - Ore Respawn.esp35  Harvest[Containers] - Player Home Add-on.esp36  Harvest[Containers] - Flat-Top Barrels Add-on.esp37  Harvest[Containers] - Havok Crates Add-on.esp38  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 2.0.2]39  Improved Hotkeys.esp  [Version 1.1]3A  Quick Clothes and Spells.esp3B  DLCHorseArmor.esp3C  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]3D  Mart's Monster Mod - DLCHorseArmor+Slofs .esp  [Version 0.91]3E  Kratos Blade Of Chaos.esp3F  MC_Staff_Pack.esp40  tda_Armoury.esp41  Mart's Monster Mod - Hemingweys NPC and Guard Capes.esp  [Version 1.0]42  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]43  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]44  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp  [Version 0.9.9]45  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]46  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.08a]47  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 1.08a]48  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]49  OCCards-OOO Patch.esp4A  OMOBS.esp  [Version 1.0]4B  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 1.0]4C  ArmamentariumLLVendors.esp  [Version 1.35]4D  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]4E  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]4F  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]50  OBSE-Storms & Sound SI.esp51  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]52  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 3.7b1]53  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]54  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]55  FCOM_SpawnRatesStronger.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]56  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]57  Mart's Monster Mod - No Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]58  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Reavers.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]59  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]5A  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]5B  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]5C  VASE - Cyrodiil for MMM.esp5D  VASE - Vanilla Cyrodiil.esp5E  VASE - Vanilla SI.esp5F  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]60  TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp  [Version 1.40Alpha]61  TamrielTravellersFactionAll.esp  [Version 1.39c]62  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.39c]63  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.39c]64  ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp  [Version 1.39c]65  ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions.esp  [Version 1.39c]66  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]67  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]68  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]69  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]6A  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]6B  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]6C  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]6D  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]6E  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]6F  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.73]70  Nightshade_Armor.esp71  Ivellon.esp  [Version 1.8]72  adTreeHome.esp73  ArmoryLab.esp74  Artifacts.esp  [Version 1.1]75  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.0]76  Clamshell_Cottage_v1.5_COBL.esp77  FarmersStrikeBack.esp78  GTAesgaard.esp79  GTAesgaard_2.esp7A  Gates To Aesgaard 2 Delayer.esp  [Version 1.0]7B  HauntedHouse.esp  [Version y]7C  HentaiMania2.esp7D  Lakeview2.esp7E  ScarletMonastery.esp7F  TR_Stirk.esp80  Knights.esp81  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]82  The Lost Spires.esp83  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9]84  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]85  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]86  DS Portable Sorters.esp  [Version 1.1]87  gardening.esp88  P1DkeyChain.esp  [Version 5.00]89  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.2.0]8A  ATakesAll.esp8B  Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp8C  Skip Tutorial.esp8D  RealisticFatigue.esp8E  AgarMoreVariedSpellEffects.esp8F  MidasSpells.esp90  Oblivion XP.esp  [Version 4.1.5]91  CTAddPose_v_1.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.78]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk.esp  [Version 0.78]92  Moonshadow Elves - NoSc.esp93  DesuChan's Dolls.esp94  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]95  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]96  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]97  bgBalancingEVOptionalClasses.esp  [Version 9.0EV-U]98  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversity, Vanilla.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]99  bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp  [Version 10.]9A  bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp  [Version 10.51EV-D]9B  bgBalancingEVLAMEGlue.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D1.62EV]9C  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversityLAME.esp  [Version 10.5EV-D]9D  DS Flaming Arrows.esp  [Version 1.2]9E  QTdof.esp9F  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]A0  Hemingweys Capes.esp  [Version 2.00]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.0]A1  Bashed Patch, 0.espA2  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.88]A3  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.89]A4  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.89]A5  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.86]A6  bgMagicEV_Conjuration_for_Supreme_Magicka.esp  [Version 1.5]A7  FormID Finder4.espA8  !Get_Level_Spell-5659.esp  [Version y]A9  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]AA  bgMagicShaderLifeDetect.esp  [Version 1.68]AB  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp

My COBL should be running 1.72 instead of 1.69.

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:21 am

I am using FCOM_SpawnRatesStronger.esp too. :wink_smile: (hate the smile always adding to a wrong position :shocking:)
Actually, I cannot imagine that you are running a A64 3500+

I would be very appreciate that you looking for my load order, it really take time.
Thank you. ...

I have to go - but I'll check it out when returning home from work tonight. Meanwhile, I'm sure you'll get some tips from others here.

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:04 am

Try uninstalling Tamriel Traveler and and Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:56 am

What PetrusOctavianus said. Also:

13 UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp [Version 1.0.0] - Use the Bashed Patch option instead and save a slot.
14 Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp - Skip. Probably not needed and can cause issues. Only use if necessary.

46 Oblivion WarCry EV.esp [Version 1.08a] - Update to 1.09
47 FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 1.08a] - As above.

4A OMOBS.esp [Version 1.0] - Import Stats and keep unchecked.
4B OMOBS_SI.esp [Version 1.0] - As above.

51 Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp [Version 3.7b3p3] - Consider skipping. Can be demanding. You can always add it when you have a stable game.
52 FCOM_Convergence.esp [Version 3.7b1] - Update to the UFCOM version, i.e. 0.9.9Mb3. You have the esm from it so a bit weird. Also required for the latest MMM.

56 Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp [Version 3.7b3p3] - Consider skipping for now. Not sure, but I guess it might add up to AI overload.

60 TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp [Version 1.40Alpha] - Skip for now.
61 TamrielTravellersFactionAll.esp [Version 1.39c]
62 TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp [Version 1.39c]
63 TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp [Version 1.39c]
64 ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp [Version 1.39c]
65 ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions.esp [Version 1.39c]
66 FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp [Version 0.9.9]

6D ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp [Version 2.01] - Merge into the Bashed Patch and keep unchecked.
6E ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp [Version 1.35] - As above.

If the above doesn't help, I'd recommend scaling back considerably to a core FCOM install and the ones you simply can't live without even for a second. Your first priority should be to get a stable, well performing game - you can always add mods after that while keeping an eye on stability/performance.

» Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:01 am

Many thanks to PetrusOctavianus and Arkngt for the advices. I will follow the instructions.

The topic can be closed now.