True enough, but is Greywyn not an example of 'the voices told me to do it'? I think he was probably delusional by the sound of things, which would be why some other vampires, like Vicente, would not be so easily swayed by his theories.

I've wondered about this apparent contraction myself. Greywyn says in his http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/lairvilegreywynsjournal.shtml, "All along, I was mistaken. All along, I was the blight upon Sithis and his dark name. Tonight, he spoke to me and again, and I learned of his displeasure. Again, I heard no words, but I knew the meaning. I was meant to take blood, to spill blood... but never to taste blood. My sanguine ways have offended my lord! I must cleanse myself of this filth. I must find a way!" And yet Vicente is allowed to serve. I like Dark Sister's explanation, but I don't know.

Just to clarify, Sithis does not like vampires, nor does he dislike them. Greywyn might be crazy, but so is the rest of the Brotherhood, and Sithis could care less. Sithis is not in any way sentient, or at least has yet to demonstrate it.

Lorkhan might have played a significant role earlier in the history of the Tong, or his sphere might have made him an ideal candidate for the early Velothi (Chimer), but it seems unlikely that he is still playing the role of Sithis. Mephala is the leading candidate, so any kind of visions or prayers that the assassins have made have gone to her. So Sithis doesn't accept vampires, but Mephala might.

So Greywyn might have been toyed with by Mephala (sounds like her), or she might have really been serious about it, who knows? Her realm and her motivations are pretty obscure, and one of her only common things is messing around with mortals.

In the end the Brotherhood is difficult to draw conclusions from due to the bias and dogma. I'd probably agree with Proweler and Hellmouth most of all on this one (though Jack and Hairdo had valid points as well). The biggest thing is to keep in mind the source of the Brotherhood's traditions, and how they mainly sprung from the Tong (and a feeling of disdain for the elven guild).

i get the whole primordial force thing. but for some reaosn i always saw Sithis as somthing like the black cloaked figure in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qyGRYEihqo

we don't know what could be behind all that. for all we know it could be nothing. imagen a walking heep of clothing or robes. masked behind somthing. and when you take all of the clothing and maks away theres not hing behind it that is how i saw the statue. nothing but cloths and a form that serves as a medium. everybodys always on about how Sithis isn't sentient. and all that but with everythign as contridictery as it is could it not be possible that it is? that it has motives and goals? that it actually does somthing other then not exist? the first step i n an idea is to give ita name. we give the idea a name and then its that much more connected to our world. and then we may go so far as to give that idea a shape. and after that any number of things. all i'm saying is "is it possible to ascribe somthing perceptable to the nothingness that is Padomay/Sithis/Is-Not" Nhilists do it all the time. my personal view of Nihlism is not lack of belief but the belief in "Nothing" as an understandable concept. if this noth ing can be named can it not be represented in a visual/physical sense? the first step to everything is an idea. these concepts are not set in stone and it seems they may be sh ifting as we speak. so it would not be wise to think of it in stasis when Padomy is the very embodiment of change. but i'm probably babbling nonsense b y now so i'll leave with that

The Dark Brotherhood is a split-off group of the Morag Tong: Guess who the Morag Tong worship? I'll give you a hint. It stars with an "M".

YEAH YEAZH I GET IT mEPHALA PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FEEDING ME THAT I JUST CAN'T HELP BUT THINK THERES AT LEAST ONEOTHER PLAYER OR SOMTHING ELSE BEHIND TH IS.

Sithis isn't a true god in a sense; As stated before he's always just been a literal force of nature, a law like Gravity. While I understand what you mean, until one of the new games makes it specifically clear that Sithis is an actual sentient that behaves as a god, your point is moot. Personally I think the being the Dark Brotherhood worshiping is actually a Daedric Prince makes the most sense. It doesn't even have to be one though; It could be Mephala and Molag Bal together.

Huh. That's actually brilliant. It could even be more than two. The idea that just came into my head is this:

My original post was much funnier, containing a few emo jokes and an obligatory joke on wangsty teenagers as I practice for my new job as a comedy writer along with the following idea:

They probably combined the soul-torturing aspect of Molag Bal and the aspect of Lorkhan with the heart ripped out and the killing (so more like Shor in his Nordic aspect than Lorkhan in his elven one) to the masculine aspect of the hermaphroditic Mephala.

to me it would seem more likely that this iteration of Sithis is based upon the Redgard Satak and Satakel which makes far more sense then Shor in my humble openion.

I'd have to concur with Prow regarding Sithis as an aspect of Lorkhan. Like the Divines, he's retroactive, blessing players for the infamy they've gained among their mortal peers, and his Wrath only appearing to known traitors. In addition to who whole "trapped" and "missing heart" things.

As for the whole connection with vampires, the Crimson Scar hideout and journal gives much of this strong connection to Lorkhan, who had his heart ripped out, which may be related to their whole blood-related angle.

As much as I like Greywyn and respected his actions against the DB, I think he was a lunatic.

"All along, I was mistaken. All along, I was the blight upon Sithis and his dark name. Tonight, he spoke to me and again, and I learned of his displeasure. Again, I heard no words, but I knew the meaning. I was meant to take blood, to spill blood... but never to taste blood. My sanguine ways have offended my lord! I must cleanse myself of this filth. I must find a way!"-Greywyn

Sure, Sithis told him that he was suppose to wipe out non-vampiric members and mortals, and now all of a sudden he said "Never mind...cure your vampirism"

I think either he is delusional, for the sole fact that he probably hated clean-blooded mortals that he killed those who would not turn, and persuaded those who would, then after he failed, he said Sithis didn't want it. But nevertheless, I am all for a vampiric assassin organization that would rival the DB.