Hey gang. So far you all have been really helpful with my excursion into Oblivion mods. Thanks for your help! It's kind of intimidating with how much activity there is here, although there are some familiar posters I know from the FO3 mod forums. So far I haven't gone overboard with mods because I'm still trying to enjoy the "vanilla-ish" experience. I didn't like the leveling system, so someone suggested I try Tejons nGCD. I've installed OBMM to manage the mods I'm using. So far I'm only running darn's UI, nGCD, Streamline and Unofficial patch. Also running RAM boost, but that's not an esp. Anyhow, at some point I plan on tweaking the gills out of this thing and I'm curious what the difference is between all the different loaders.

I have downloaded Wrye Bash and after reading the readme I'm completely terrified of it. I'm going to read it a few more times and see if it makes any more sense, but there's also the general foreboding about asking for help because the author gives the impression that everything is pretty clearly explained. I'm not completely worthless, but I feel out of my comfort zone working with some of these things. :brokencomputer:

Then I read about BOSS and thought that might be something worth trying.

I'm using OBMM, but it really doesn't seem to do anything other than organize my esms/esps. I guess I'm used to Fallout's FOMM which I used to unpack mods and load em up and seemed to me to be quite intuitive, especially with how easy it was to make merged patches for it. Am I using this utility incompletely?

Whats the pros and cons of the different loaders?


Thanks in advance! :foodndrink:

Good advice for someone starting out:

• Stick with OBMM for a while. It's fairly user-friendly.
  
• Wrye Bash does many many more things than OBMM does. After you've gotten more comfortable and knowledgable with adding mods to your game, you will start to run into situations that Wrye Bash could help you with. At that point, you might want to start learning to use Wrye Bash. Until that point, it will remain confusing because your learning isn't driven by perceived need.
  
• BOSS is near-indispensible. It's also pretty user-friendly. I'd use it if I were you. It is not a mod loader. It rearranges the load order of your mods. So, you use it alongside your loader (OBMM).

gothemasticator

OBMM and Wrye Bash also have systems for installing mods, not exactly the same as FOMM. http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=omod_installation.

Thanks guys. I downloaded and ran BOSS. I can only assume it makes a bigger difference when you're running tons of mods. My 4 mods didn't seem to move, although it did suggest the Unofficial Patch Supplemental mod and gave me a link! That's pretty cool.

Thanks for the link to OBMM uses. I'll read that for sure.

Check out this page for info on your question (this site in general is very helpful):
http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=preparing_for_mods

Personally I think all 3 are necessary for the best experience HOWEVER Wrye Bash will make your mod experience much less stressful in the long run even though it's a complicated tool to learn at first. The sooner you learn to use it, especially BAIN, the better off you'll be. Before BAIN I abandoned 2 Oblivion installs because I got mod happy and screwed up my game. OBMM doesn't really give you a way to recover from this.

I'm to lazy to write more, check out these threads, the authors are awesome:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1088164-raising-bain-awareness

OBMM Pros:
- Easy to use, point and click functionality
- Advanced mod packaging using omods allows the author to control how the mod is installed.

OBMM Cons:
- Only works with omods. Can't install all types of mods

Bash Pros:
- Powerful mod management features
- Ability to merge mods
- game tweaks
- savegame management
- install order and load order management

Bash Cons:
- It's scary (it's actually not very hard to use for general purposes, it's just intimidating with all the features)
- BAIN format is not as powerful as omod
- Cannot install omod (special file type) archives (although it can install omod-ready (regular zips with omod config data) archives)

It is generally not advised to use both OBMM and Wrye Bash for installing different mods.
They both try to manage your mod list and keep track of what has been installed.
Using both will cause confusion if you are not completely sure of what you are doing.

I agree with most of what you write here except highlighted in red. BAIN addresses all the areas of where OMODs fail (even epic fail) and surpasses OBMM in many other things. All described http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ What BAIN cannot do is shaders and weird files that one would question going in anyway like exe files. An all BAIN installed game is far sturdier and easier to manage than an all OMOD game by far. After proper packaging and organizing I can uninstall my entire oblivion game data folder (all 33 gigs of it) within minutes to maybe an hour and reassemble it in a multitude of ways. Being able to view where every file went and what replacer conflicted with what other replacer. BAIN introduces the idea of install order that is akin to load order. An install order that you can adjust. OBMM cannot do that. FOMM can though.

I agree both are necessary - in fact for running a full load order knowledge of all the tools are necessary and none of the major ones are really unnecessary.

As far as Bash being scary - with the Wrye Python installer - it is so much easier than it used to be. Also of note installing it isn't going to ruin your game. Even if you are one of the 2% who can't get it together to run Wrye Bash (after trying) then you always have OBMM to fall back on. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Take your time ask questions and read you should be fine.

Once you get used to it and see all it can do then you join the bash chorus and wonder how you got this far without it.

I can't help with the knowledge, but I can tell you that I share your feelings of intimidation. I run an OBMM game with about 25 mods. I just added Wrye Bash today.

Installing Python and WB from TSNexus went perfectly. I followed Wrye's instructions very carefully. I'm sure it all works fine, I just don't know how to use it yet. I have figured out how to use WB to move a face from a saved game to a new game, and I have figured how to delete spells in WB. These two features alone are worth it. I am looking forward to learning more about BAIN and bashing patches etc - eventually.

As for BAIN depending on your learning style http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ or Tomlong's website (which actually is about a lot more than BAIN) may be helpful. http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=wrye_bash

My thread has been criticized as being too wordy/bookish - which is fair I love books and learn that way, so not an insult to me.

Well, I use Wrye Bash and OMM and Boss ... and I was just as intimidated as you are now when I first started. Don't let that stop you.

I encourage you to take the time to learn Wrye Bash, for it is truly one of the most powerful tools available to mod users. If you run a lot of mods - or you plan to in the future - Wrye Bash will quickly become essential. When Wrye Bash is open, for example, you can run BOSS and it will sort your load order (OMM probably does the same thing but I've never used it for that).

Using Wrye Bash's Ghosting and Merge functions, you can merge .esps into a patch and not have them count towards the 250 .esp limit. Currently, I'm running 213 .esps but on 161 count towards my load order limit.

Wrye Bash's Bashed Patch merges mods together easy and seamlessly. It also allows for some unique game tailoring.

With Wrye Bash, you can import faces to your character or an NPC easily and without a problem.

You can also create mod-specific saved games - saved games that only use specific mods (great for houses!)

And so on . . . . There's so much that I haven't mentioned - BAIN and so on.

Good luck!

~ Dani ~

You should also check out BOMM on Tesnexus if you use Microsoft Word on your computer.

Once you get into adding more and more mods it helps you organize those mods that BOSS does not recognize.

And just because you have both OBMM and wrye bash doesn't mean you cant use them both at the same time. I usually just point all my mod downloads to the Bash install folder and if its an OMOD file I'll just load up OBMM and install it. Once you read up on it a bit and learn more wrye bash will most likely be your LO manager of choice, with OBMM used for omod installs and quickly reogranizing your mods (point and drag as opposed to crtl-arrow keying).

What a wonderfully helpful thread! Thanks to OP for creating it and thanks for those smart ones who are taking the time to share your expertise! I have bookmarked Psymon's thread and already was familiar (some) with Tomlong's wonderful site. If later on I get into trouble, I'll have to pester Dani with a PM.

+1 for Wrye Bash.

The thing I like the most is BAIN though. Creating a well organized OB install, with multiple mods has never been easier. Granted it takes some time to get a feeling of how it works, and how to create proper structures. After that, everything is cake!

I am not going to post some of my insanely complex BAIN achieves, but it really shows the advantages over OBMM. The only reason I use OBMM is for shader mods, but every OMOD w/ script gets transformed into a BAIN achieve, anyways.

Best way to learn it is by creating a simple BAIN achieve, and play around with it. The whole esp/merge functionality is rather easier to understand, especially with WB telling you what should be disabled, and what can be merged.

lunaaaa