Nirn is built of the gods, which are infinitely huge planets. Nirn is supposed to be finite. Yet, it is built of "pieces of infinity". How does one quantify "pieces of infinity"? And what sets Nirn so far apart from the God Plane(t)s?

The infinite gods (who are also their planets) took finite peices of themselves and gave them to Nirn. That is how they are peices of infinity. you can't compare the amount given of the Et'ada to tthe amount left, but If there are infinite canies and you take two of them, you still have two despite the source being infinite.

But according to the stories, the Divines became weakened by this action. How do infinite beings get noticeably weaker as a result of giving up a finite portion of themselves?

The Aedra appear weak for the reason they're crafted by men, hence man assigned them stars. They're ideals to keep mortals company in a lonely world, hence man assigned them stars. All the more importantly, the audacious man saw its destiny in worlds beyond heaven. "We came from beyond - as far as you might ever look -" they'd say, "and someday we'll return."

Consider Cosmology as allegory (that's how T0's Monomyth presents the world's mythologies), which does not make Cosmology wrong, but it does make Pelinal very angry.

and because oo - 2 is still less than oo.

∞ - 2 = ∞

If any other answer were true, it wouldn't be infinite.
If
∞ - 2 = x,
where x is something less than ∞, (and therefore finite)
then
x + 2 = ∞

Which is clearly absurd. You can't add two finite numbers and have the sum be infinite, naturally.

Infinity is necessarily innumerable.

edit: I found out how to type the unicode character for infinity in ubuntu. Hurrah.

oo -2 = oo, yes, byt the infinity is smaller than another infinity. IE:

Black holes are infinitely dense because they are infinitley small. However, a new blackhole is less dense than an old one, because it hasn't absorbed as much material.

But aside from Mannimarco's recent ascension (which wasn't a simple feat), there hasn't been any visible cosmological change in the Mortal Plane that I'm aware of. It all remains the same, aside from the Serpent and the occasional moon-related anomaly.


But I don't think it would make a perceivable difference.

As I understand it, black holes are *not* infinitely dense, just dense enough that light cannot escape their gravitational attraction. (The speed of light isn't infinite, so a less-than-infinite mass is capable of arresting it).
Indeed, a quick wikipedia search brings up this chart:
Supermassive black hole | ~105–109 MSun | ~0.001–10 AU
Intermediate-mass black hole | ~103 MSun | ~103 km = REarth
Stellar black hole | ~10 MSun | ~30 km
Micro black hole | up to ~MMoon | up to ~0.1 mm


But I suppose that one infinity *could* be smaller than another infinity, although not by a definite, rational amount.
Actually, upon reflection... can there even be multiple infinities?
That is a bit metaphysical.... But of course, it's The Elder Scrolls we're talking about. Metaphysics are this series' bread and butter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_theorem

Also while the thought (myth)-form of Nirn may be infinite like the gods that created it, the materiality of Nirn is finite. There are no other planetary bodies. The gods are immaterial, aetheric.

Yes, the Aurbis is the Aurbis. Those aren't exceptions, and neither is Mannimarco.

If they are infinitely huge, they are not planets. You have to pick one. Finite planets, or infinite gods.

To mortals, it could be difficult to find a difference between "infinite" and "very very very very big", especially if they aren't viewing it through a big enough scale.

Whatever the case is, I'm fairly certain Cosmology was written by mortals. And apparently http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ancient_Tales_of_the_Dwemer#Part_II:_The_Seed ones.

Edit: I'm just stating an observation, I don't want to rekindle any old debates. But there's nothing wrong with taking some texts with a grain of salt if one feels that otherwise everything doesn't add up.

You can have infinites that are smaller or larger than other infinites. If you really like math, then you could read http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/52400.html.

Mortals know their perception is limited, however that knowledge is latent. For the player, there's the Cosmology. The Tower operates on the same principle: deception. Lorkhan is a deception, kill him - our limit, our sin - and we'll reach our inheritance. This is a hallmark of the Monomyth, where the hero is shown and then shows the world he thought was real was an ideal, which, in our world of myth and magic, means that it is so real that it becomes dangerous.


Or what http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1132120-nirn-relative-to-other-planets/page__gopid__16586751&#entry16586751.


I'm curious how some of you sat through Star Wars or the Matrix, without saying "that's impossible." Is TES a special kind of fantasy that's so real to you, you can't accept it's an illusion?

Not to a human, yes. but to a god it makes all the difference.


ehh... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity


Or infinite plante Gods...

Because I do not believe it's all an illusion. In-universe, at least.


Unless the gods all start out as equal infinities and there are no other factors in play, I don't think it would make any practical difference, even to the gods.

And that's the point, belief makes it real.

Don't bother with the infinities. They're too complicated.

In all myths the et'Ada did become weaker so we can assume there is a cause for this. When the et'Ada sacrificed parts of themselves, they created a realm closer to the original state of the Aurbis. With the creation of Mundus they could actually die as they did at the start. As such their new-found mortality seems to be a good explanation for their weakness.

But any self respecting story teller isn't going to bore his audience with complex details about why the gods became weaker. The points that need to get across is that the creation was an selfless act that came at a great cost. So all it mattered is that the et'Ada gave up parts of themselves and became weaker. For most finite beings - unaware of divine infinities or infinity itself - this is enough explanation as the same would happen to them.

It can then also be used to highlight the selfishness of the Daedra, who were unwilling to sacrifice. Making the whole pleasantly moralizing as is expected of a creation Myth.



You've never seen a Star Wars discussion, eh?



As Mer would have it there is no fundamental difference between mortals and the divine. From by the Altmeri view that they are the offspring of the et'Ada and the Dwemer attempt at reversing the process by unifying, you could argue that if the gods are infinities then mortals are merely infinite subsets of those infinities. Which in turn highlights the importance of distinguishing the size of Nirn from it's inhabitants as the former is finite.

But this makes things just needlessly complicated and about as pointless as arguing over the number of angels that can dance on a needle.

I've always thought of the gods, the et'ada like Platonic Forms, as in they're indivisible or elemental in nature with mortals, Nirn, and everything on Nirn being echoes of such Forms.