Follow the bread crumbs

Post » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:48 pm

I'm hoping for a compass without markers, a map that records everywhere we've been, and quests that give you a general idea of where you're going on the map. When you're instructed to go somewhere, the general area is circled on the map, but it's up to you to find it within that area.

A cool bonus would be the ability to write on the map yourself.
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Claire Mclaughlin
 
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Post » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:03 am

Wow, I haven't played or seen Fable 3 but that sounds bad.

I liked how Oblivion did it. I like how Morrowind did it better. Basically, I want the map markers that Oblivion had but either A. Have an option to toggle it on or off, or B. Have it only in specific situations. If I'm sent to a cave to find someone's lost friend, I shouldn't have a map marker telling me exactly where this person is because I shouldn't know, but if I'm given a quest to go talk to someone in a town, then I'm fine with having a map marker on that person, especially since people have varying schedules and I don't want to have to search the entire town tracking this person down.

I understand and appreciate the map markers of Oblivion. I got really frustrated with Morrowind numerous times because I'd get lost for half an hour or more due to awful directions given by the NPCs, but I don't want the map marker FORCED on me like it was in Oblivion. I'd typically get a quest that has no active map marker and set it to active in certain situations.


I agree.

I found Morrowind more enjoyable because you actually had to listen to diections and use your own head to know where you had to go, not follow some red marker that had you thoughtlessly running in one direction, or worse yet.... fast-travelling without the use of a travel service. Which is one thing I abhor but then many do and many don't. =/
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Ross Thomas
 
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Post » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:35 am

After reading some of the replies here a quest from Oblivion popped back into my mind, it was during my characters induction quest into the thieves guild. I remember listening to my recruiter like a child all watery eyed with anticipation on Christmas eve, it was the quest where you were entrusted with stealing a personal item from some poor individual who must have crossed swords with the wrong folk. It ticked all the right boxes for an awesome quest, those being to break into the imperial city, finding one house among many, picking the locked door and searching its entire contents for one particular item without waking its inhabitants ALL against the clock in order to obtain the item prior to your fellow colleagues. Only to find the quest actually involved following a green indicator that lead me directly to the chaps house, told me which floor of the house the item it was on, and then it was kind enough to proclaim which draw it was in. The only thing it left out was what he likes to eat for breakfast and which colour of the rainbow he prefers.

It was like waking up on Christmas morning, rushing down the stairs only to find a bag of coal awaiting you and a note from santa informing you to behave better this year, it left me with numerous question marks floating above my head along with a sour face.

While I am inclined to prefer Morrowinds approach to finding specific locations and quest objectives, I do believe that both systems have merit. I particularly like the idea of a map marker to a static location, this technique would require the player to actually read or listen to the journal/NPC and would require some human ingenuity to get the job done.


Btw, if you're discussing the actual induction into the Thieves Guild quest, then you're completely wrong. In fact, you stated the opposite point of the one you should be making. In the quest where you have to steal the journal (and you're competing with other potential guild members) not only do you have a limited amount of in-game time, but you are directed to a general area of the city to find out for yourself where the target's house is from one of the beggars. Once they tell you the directions, you THEN got a quest marker showing where the house is based on the directions. Your other option is just aimlessly searching for the house or (possibly) just being lucky enough to have been to the house before and know where it is.

Point being, this quest is actually one of the very, very few in Oblivion that did NOT direct you immediately to the "GPS tracking device" on the item you're looking for. I don't know what version of the game you were playing, but I know from many playthroughs that this is how it went down each and every time.

Aside from that correction, which you can validate on the quest walkthrough on UESP, I would like to say that I would prefer a system that finds a happy medium between the Morrowind system and the Oblivion one, of course with some new ingenuity put into play for Skyrim.
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Jessica Nash
 
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Post » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:03 am

It is recognized that for a variety of reasons, there are a variety of playstyles.

So, options are usually good. I am not going to bash anybody for playstyle.

Speaking for myself, however, I liked this thought, from Obstructionist:

"If people can actually give you directions and you can investigate and ask around, buy maps, read books about an area, follow clues, etc. to find what you are looking for I'd be all for it."

Finding books and maps and researching the quest sounds good to me. I would, however, like to be able to place my own map markers. and write my own journal entries.
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kat no x
 
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Post » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:26 am

Depends how it is done. Mindless wondering around doesn't add any more depth than following the golden trail of bread crumbs. One just takes longer than the other.

If we are talking about an example where the quest giver tells you "Go north west young man" and you are in the south east corner of the map and that is all the direction available through in game clues, no thanks, I'll take the quest markers.

If people can actually give you directions and you can investigate and ask around, buy maps, read books about an area, follow clues, etc. to find what you are looking for I'd be all for it.

I've never really seen that approach done to my satisfaction though. Probably because it would take a ton of time and effort to create all the text, dialogue and voice overs to do it. While I'm not crazy about easy to follow quest markers, it is leaps and bounds ahead of wondering around aimlessly for hours tying to find a needle in the middle of Skyrim.


This.
Unless they give us a very good location/quest description and the ability to ask around for clues etc. lets stick with the quest marker please...
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Hannah Whitlock
 
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Post » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:22 am

He has expressed regret about not meeting all of the promises he's made in the past. He's also expressed less pride than he deserves to express about some of his older games as well. I'm not a huge fan of him and I haven't played most of his games but it's become something of a meme to bash him and that kind of sad, in my opinion. I suppose that gets in the way of the caricature people like to portray him as though.


At the risk of going off topic, I'll say this. I would much rather see someone like Todd Howard or Gabe Newell (Valve) head a game company than someone like Bobby Kotick (Blizzard) or John Riccitiello (EA). Sure, Kotick and Riccitiello bring in more cash, which the shareholders love, but Todd and Gabe actually seem like people who love gaming, and game development - and gamers get treated to better games as a result.

You can tell when Todd talks about a game Bethesda is working on that he is actually excited about it, and it shows in the final product. These are games people hold on to and play for years and years - and the entire forum related to TES lore testifies to that. As for Valve, while I'm not a big fan of Steam, you can tell that it is at least a system designed around gamers. Plus, the games that Valve has produced have been top notch, and incredible fun - I haven't been disappointed very often with their stuff - unlike some developers.

If anything, Skyrim, and my respect for Valve, might push me into finally getting a Steam account - something that will NOT happen with EA.
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Jon O
 
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Post » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:25 am

Back on topic:

If the quest givers, and NPC directions are good, I don't see the need for quest markers or (worse) a quest "GPS". RPG's should require that you a actually listen to the quest giver, and do some looking. Finding ancient, abandoned dungeons should require a bit of digging. Shoot, finding random locations in the wilderness should require a bit of basic orientation. (IOW, I wouldn't mind a compass, but not a quest compass)

IOW, give me a solid starting point from the original quest giver, accurate hints regarding landmarks from other NPC's, a compass, and an accurate map. Everything else is superfluous.

However, it seems most people want a popup that tells them to "turn right at the next tree", followed by "turn left at the next rock" all the way to the dungeon entrance.
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RAww DInsaww
 
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Post » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:58 am

Fable...to mention that is a capital offense... *chants death penalty* what they did to the series is a disgrace...it's so..utterly...simplified..its no longer a RPG game for anyone over 5 years old..Unexplored ground..executed in the worst way possible. Oblivion was streamlined...i really hated it..games have almost no depth anymore. In exchange for a larger audience they dumb down the game with screws over the gamer types. You no longer think...everything is handed to you on a silver dish and simplified that even a caveman could do it. I have no idea why some people don't like Morrowind's directions, they where always specific and added realism thats hardly touched on in games. I really hated the compass, it took all the adventure out of the game. Is it truly that hard to find someone? Or a place?
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An Lor
 
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Post » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:43 pm

I found Oblivions system far worse than Fable 2&3 system. But from some of the minor comments it seem we may be getting actual directions in Skyrim, or at least much less hand holding with the quest markers.
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IsAiah AkA figgy
 
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Post » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:34 am

I'd like to earn map/compass markers. Like, instead of magically knowing where something is, you have to do a little detective work.

For example, someone might tell you about a treasure in a nearby Dwemer ruin. From there, you're shown either a couple of possible ruins on your map, or are given a vague idea of where to look, in the form of a large-ish coloured circle on the map- it could be anywhere in that circle.

And once you find the right ruin, it could keep narrowing down each time you find a clue, until you know exactly which chest to open, or at least which room to enter.

You know if I recall in one of the mags/interview it was stated (Unsure if this is for some things or all) that the NPC whom your doing something for would point out which way to travel for your destination. I always found turning off the HUD in New Vegas a very rewarding experience myself. But this is a nice way to go about for those who'd like to be shown the right direction and instinctively travel by sight there.
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Susan
 
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Post » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:35 am

I found Oblivions system far worse than Fable 2&3 system. But from some of the minor comments it seem we may be getting actual directions in Skyrim, or at least much less hand holding with the quest markers.


Yeah. In Fable you could at least turn this horrible magic trail off.

In Oblivion you're stuck with the darn quest arrows... which I utterly hate. I want to think myself, listen to what NPCs actually say, and to read carefully.
So if Bethesda has to put quest markers/arrows in, THEN AT LEAST MAKE IT SO THEY CAN BE TURNED OFF.

/End thread for me.
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kitten maciver
 
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