Bosmers changing into animals : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:12 pm

PGE1 tells us that Bosmeri are able to adapt the form of an animal or of water. Why is it that we don't see any of this in the games?

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:43 pm

Because PGE1 has many errors (many things there have been retconned) and is biased towards Imperial views.
Always take PGE1 with a grain of salt.

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:00 pm

But the Wild Hunt did turn out to be true. And this passage is writen by Eric of Guis who spent a long time in Valenwood and he wouldn't just write a thing like that with no reason!. And if we treat PGE1 as you write that means we treat almost everything we know about the provinces and cultures of Tamriel the same way.

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:06 pm

Because PGE1 has many errors (many things there have been retconned) and is biased towards Imperial views.
Always take PGE1 with a grain of salt.

Well it's definitely biased towards the Imperial view, though that doesn't really pertain to the existence of the Wild Hunt.
It is biased to call the Wild Hunt a barbaric throwback of an already primitive society, it is biased to call the Wild Hunt a glorious sacrifice granted by Y'ffre to protect the Bosmer. Describing it's existence however isn't.

PGE1 tells us that Bosmeri are able to adapt the form of an animal or of water. Why is it that we don't see any of this in the games?

I don't know. But I can think of a few reasons.

It doesn't seem to be an individual ability, it also doesn't seem to be reversible. Both make it rather impractical to grant the player this ability. It also hasn't been relevant to any setting or story yet so it's not that important to get it into the game.

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:31 pm

But your talking about the wild hunt. The PGE1 tells us the Bosmer can transform into animals, wild hunt is just the most dreaded ritual used in times of crisis. But it doesn't say that during these normal transformations they can't change back.

» Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:31 am

Its not a casual changing ability that they do whenever they feel like it. Its a last resort in war kind of thing. It may also be a cultural phenomena rather than a racial one, meaning your more imperialized bosmer could be incapable of doing it.

The most important aspect is gameplay. It'd be a female dog to properly implement, and only be used by a small fraction of the players.

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:08 pm

And also from the Arena days, aren't there a couple cities on the map from 1992 that are in Morrowind on that map only but do not show up in any other official game map thereafter? Bethesda, in a lot of ways, is like George Lucas. They make up the story as they go along and get rid of things too. The stuff they get rid of, you're just supposed to pretend that it never appeared to begin with.

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:49 pm

Wonder Twin powers activate! Form of King Dead Wolf-deer. Form of puddle.

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:24 pm

To get any depth on this you have to read Dance in the Fire - a Morrowind book that might also be found in Oblivion about the travels and adventures of one Decimus Scotti, a clerk in an Imperial Trade Commission who takes advantage of his insider status when sacked grab documents and to travel to Valenwood to make a trade deal with the Bosmer during or after the Border wars between Valenwood and Elsweyr. One incident recounts the events when the Bosmer call on their Hunt ... it doesn't sound pretty.

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm

Yeah, weren't the Bosmer like the Khajiit? No fixed form back in the early days of creation. Azura bound the Khajiit's form to the Lunar Lattice, and Y;ffre bound the Bosmer to the Earth Bones.

Y'ffre (God of the Forest)
Most important deity of the Bosmeri pantheon. While Auri-El Time Dragon might be the king of the gods, the Bosmer revere Y'ffre as the spirit of 'the now'. According to the Wood Elves, after the creation of the mortal plane everything was in chaos. The first mortals were turning into plants and animals and back again. Then Y'ffre transformed himself into the first of the Ehlnofey, or 'Earth Bones'. After these laws of nature were established, mortals had a semblance of safety in the new world, because they could finally understand it. Y'ffre is sometimes called the Storyteller, for the lessons he taught the first Bosmer. Some Bosmer still possess the knowledge of the chaos times, which they can use to great effect (the Wild Hunt).

- http://www.imperial-library.info/content/races-tamriel-bosmer

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:06 pm

Yeah, weren't the Bosmer like the Khajiit? No fixed form back in the early days of creation. Azura bound the Khajiit's form to the Lunar Lattice, and Y;ffre bound the Bosmer to the Earth Bones.

- http://www.imperial-library.info/content/races-tamriel-bosmer

Every one was like that. The Bosmer just got smart and remembered it. It's probebly also why they are religious carnivores, you might be eating an ancestor that happened to be a tree at the time Y'ffre told everybody to cut the shape shifting out.

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:35 pm

Every one was like that. The Bosmer just got smart and remembered it. It's probebly also why they are religious carnivores, you might be eating an ancestor that happened to be a tree at the time Y'ffre told everybody to cut the shape shifting out.

This sits very well with your giant four-eyed frog ^^

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:41 pm

Proweler did the Hist Monkey Truth? Very nice. My favorite, after the Orc Creation story. And the Water-getting Girl.

Who's Y'ffre, Herma Mora? They say he nearly changed the Nords, but Ysmir helped escape that doom.

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:04 pm

Proweler did the Hist Monkey Truth? Very nice. My favorite, after the Orc Creation story. And the Water-getting Girl.

Who's Y'ffre, Herma Mora? They say he nearly changed the Nords, but Ysmir helped escape that doom.

interesting that Yffre and the Nords are both tonally oriented then (if not like the Dwemer)

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:10 pm

The breath is life.

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:29 pm

nicely put - I hope the nords feel that way when enjoying the dragons' breath ^^

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:08 pm

They'd be selfish not to.

» Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:27 am

In some aspects, it could just be an unknown facet of Valenwood that allows the Bosmer, with their affinity to nature, to transform into woodland critters. In this sense, it's just a form of magic that hasn't been given much literary attention, so I'd probably be willing to believe it.

On the other hand, it could be something more unnatural, like a form of lycanthropy that certain Bosmer contract in a ritualistic way.

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:10 pm

PGE1 tells us that Bosmeri are able to adapt the form of an animal or of water. Why is it that we don't see any of this in the games?

According to http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-immortal-blood, Valenwood vampires can turn into mist.

» Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:58 am

Proweler did the Hist Monkey Truth?

I'm pretty sure my name is not below that one.

» Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:47 am

Maybe to foreigners eyes (ie imperials) they seemed to do as they supposedly can talk to animals. So an imperial watching a Bosmer talk to an animal thought that maybe it was really a transformed elf or something. My 2cents

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:51 pm

I'm pretty sure my name is not below that one.

Not sure who but someone did An Exploration of the Hist Language by Confrater Enmon Anaphresus ... and that is in the Temple Zero website. No idea if the Confrater is an Avatar or a Tamriellian being so I was just passing the buck to proweler for it as it his link ^^ - but it might qualify as a you plural

» Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:23 am

I'm pretty sure my name is not below that one.

I never matched the stories with their authors.

» Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:57 pm

I never matched the stories with their authors.

That's part of the idea.

» Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:27 am

I thought 1999 was aware of something I wasn't.