11 and world eating

Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:45 am

I believe I have finally figured out the meaning behind 11, how alduin will be restored, and who will be responsible. This is nowhere near all the information I could come up with for there are several text I didn't even touch on but I hope this gives a brief outline.

-On the reason for 11-

11 has a heavy metaphysical meaning in the elder scrolls exspecially when concerning akatosh. akatosh is revered throughout the elder scrolls universe for being the creator of time. What many people don't realize is that he is also alduin the being of destruction. They are one and the same. a quote from kirkbride demonstrates this "Assume "The Dawn Era was the End of the Previous Kalpa. The new Kalpa begins with the first day of the Merethic Era."" so in order to be a creator akatosh has to destroy the previous world. This is where 11 comes in. as vivec once said "when they switch places can you tell the difference?" so creation and destruction are one and the same but yet different. how could they be different you might ask? I think they are the same entity with different personalitys. I think this because of this quote from kirkbride. "Just like Akatosh-as-we-usually-know-him could time-scheme against his mirror-brother of the Nords, Alduin, to keep the present kalpa-- perhaps his favorite-- from being eaten."



-on how alduin could be released.-

there is most certainly elves involved in releaseing alduin from his prison.the reason I believe this is because of 3 quotes from different sources.

first a kirkbride quote.

1.)----
To kill Man is to reach Heaven, from where we came before the Doom Drum's iniquity. When we accomplish this, we can escape the mockery and long shame of the Material Prison.

To achieve this goal, we must:

1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.

2) Remove Man not just from the world, but from the Pattern of Possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.

3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once travelled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit.

this is most obviously the way that the elves tend to release alduin so everything so far has been leading up to this.


2.)----
from book of hours
"...one last note regarding the phenomenon of the middle dawn: it should be mentioned that at least one myth (‘The Blue Bone-Ring of Jyg') suggests a relationship between Mnemolic sorcery and the Void Ghost Eaters, the magic practiced in the countless Trickster cults scattered throughout the Tamri-El."

in this the void eater ghost is most certainly a reference to alduin and how he is related to certain mer cults. Now the only question is which mer cult?

and last but certainly not least the newest quote from game informer.


3.)----
And the scrolls have fortold
Of black wings in the cold
That when brothers wage war come unfurled
Alduin bane of kings
Ancient shadow unbound
With a hunger to swallow the world

This is related to the previous quotes and when taken with them is sure evidence that the mer are behind alduin's return.



-who I believe will resurrect alduin-

edit: not falmer script different I misremembered
I still believe that the mer will be responsible for raising alduin

Now I could go even furthor by bringing in the "seven fights of the aldudagga", "shor, son of shor", "on the nords lack of a creation myth", and "36 lessons of vivec" but I'll let other tackle that.
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Silvia Gil
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:00 pm

I thought they said this was a completely new language
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Jessica Stokes
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:53 am

My memory fails me I researched it just now and its different
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El Goose
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:13 am

I don't see how the elves can be targeted in any of those three quotes.
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x a million...
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:09 pm

Mer, particularly the hardliner altmer, hate this world. They want to see it erased and move back to the Dawn. It's pretty much explained in the Monomyth. Hell, the dwemer attempted it, using the Numidium to go back to the first stroke of Anu and Padomay (success debated, you ask me). But enough of them.

The first text comes from the Commentaries, penned by Mankar Camoran, son of the Usurper. Here, he explains his plans to release Alduin, using the cursed LDK, Mehrunes Dagon, who also desires to see Mundus removed as he'll continue to be cursed as Mehrunes Dagon. MC
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Melanie Steinberg
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:30 am

I know what the OP is trying to connect with in making connections with the Elves, what I'm saying is that I don't see how you can tease the Elves' intention to destroy the world out of these sources.

The third just talks about how Alduin will come to bring ruin upon the world; the second links Cults of Lorkhan (a being the traditional Elven perspective denigrates) to these Void Ghost Eaters, who if read right is talking about Alduin; and the first basically says "Destroy Nirn and we won't be able to reincarnate back to it." While Mankar Cameron does indeed view Lorkhan favorably (it's there, trust me, I'm too lazy to dig thru the Commentaries to prove it), he struck me as an exception rather than a rule.
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Katey Meyer
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:44 am

the third connects to the first quote about alduin becomeing "unbound". I used that as direct reference to the game from the game informer article to show how what was said in the first quote directly relates to the game. The first quote originally came from kirkbride and it is related to the altmeri and their way of viewing the world.

@hellmouth: I didn't know it appeared in the commentaries I got it from a quote from kirkbride but I guess that makes since with him being the author and all.
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J.P loves
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:20 pm

You've shown how some elves (notably the ones who buy into Mankar Cameron's views on Mundus) might sympathize with Alduin and desire to awaken him, yes. What you have yet to prove is connecting the Mer to a perspective on Alduin that includes just such a thing. To them, Time may indeed be a Dragon, but his name is Auriel, not Alduin. Time gives them the ability to transcend their mortal trappings and if they get it wrong, the chance to try it again. Yes, they hate the Space God and would favor destroying him (Mundus), but where do they believe that Auriel is the one to do that? For them, Auriel is their protector from Lorkhan's evil attempt to taint Anuiel with Sithis. They'd ask for Auriel to come help them if Lorkhan came a-knocking (ie if the Dragonborn who'll form the 4th Empire came to conquer them). For them, the Dragonborn'll precede the Dragons and the Dragons will protect from the Born's evil. But who in their belief system will attempt to reclaim what Lorkhan stole, though?

Now, this could be the belief system of the Falmer, that Auriel will come to help them transcend it and the way to walk that path is to destroy the world. I don't know.

Additionally, the Elven view doesn't have any perspective on Kalpas. So there is no Dragon to come and "turn the wheel" as it were.
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gemma
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:07 am

That is where the second quote comes in. It is not the majority of the elves but different cults of elves that wish to awaken alduin. And as for the elven views of kalpas they have memory's of a diffrent kalpa they just don't know it, the elvish homeland.
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Farrah Lee
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:14 am

err....actually I'm wrong, it's not on the commentaries...oops...eh...ignore what I wrote. Sorry for that :whistling: . However, it is noted that it's MK's writing on the Altmer's view of Talos, if that helps.
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BRAD MONTGOMERY
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:48 am

Ehhh. I'm seeing what you're getting at now. I'm still skeptical because you're implying from the second quote that there are elves out there who worship Lorkhan, who want to see Lorkhan dead.

1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.

2) Remove Man not just from the world, but from the Pattern of Possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.

3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once travelled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit.
1, pending. 2, from a certain perspective, check. 3. Well, 1 is still underway, but... wait, you're doing what? Why? We haven't even yet... oh no. *Crunch*
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~Amy~
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:28 am

I think I'm going to wait until I have more information before making any sort of conclusion.
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Brentleah Jeffs
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:51 pm

1, pending. 2, from a certain perspective, check. 3. Well, 1 is still underway, but... wait, you're doing what? Why? We haven't even yet... oh no. *Crunch*

I would say you got 1 and 2 switched.

For 1, with the Amulet destroyed, the convention is broken. Though whether or not Talos is still part of the Imperial Cult's pantheon is still a question (I think?). So I'd say that's a check, depending if you believe it's enough to satisfy the condition.
For 2, man still exists, though in civil war with the coming of dragons to burninate the countryside.. so their removal from the world is pending. I'm not sure what it means by removing them from "the pattern of possibility", though.
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RaeAnne
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:54 pm

One is definitely gone.

We are coming for you sons of Talos!
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Jamie Moysey
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:16 am

reverting to the OP - "mirror brother of the Nords" does not suggest to me that Aka and Alduin are one divided being. It suggests to me that the belief and worship of different races produces distinct deities that may have a common root - gtg more later
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sunny lovett
 
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