Who is this Alduin? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:55 am

Taken from wikipedia:

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is a sequel to The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and the story takes place approximately 200 years after the events of the latter game. The game is set in the titular land of Skyrim, a province of Tamriel, the continent on which all the games in the series have taken place. At the time of the game, the King of Skyrim has died, provoking civil war amongst the native Nord race. The war is the last in a sequence of events (depicted in each of the previous games in the series) that fulfill a prophecy foretold by the Elder Scrolls; the Nordic god Alduin arises to destroy the world.[2]

The player takes the role of the last Dovakhiin, a dragon hunter, who is advised by Esbern (voiced by Max von Sydow), one of the last of The Blades, a group sworn to protect the empire

Who is he really? Never heard of him. Cloud he be from Akavir?

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:59 pm

alduin is the nordic form of Akatosh

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:40 am

alduin is the nordic form of Akatosh

So do Akatosh want to destroy Tamriel?

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:21 am

So do Akatosh want to destroy Tamriel?

Alduin does. He is a time god, and that happens to involve both creating and destroying the world in Nordic mythos. I recommend http://imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:07 am

So this will mean that the pshysical form of Akatosh in Oblivions ending is not the same as the one in Skyrim?

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:00 am

it has the same soul and was the same idea before it bound it'self to Mundus. It's only different because belief shapes the Aedra.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:04 am

(It's Mundus with a U btw)

But yes, they don't necessarily have the same shape and colour

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:44 am

So this will mean that the pshysical form of Akatosh in Oblivions ending is not the same as the one in Skyrim?

My theory is the OB version wasn't truly Akatosh, but rather a manifestation created using the stored Aetherial energy funneled by White-Gold into the stone Chim-al-adabal (Amulet of Kings). Martin was consumed by the release, but he provided the shape of Akatosh (what he thought Akatosh looked like), and the manifestation's purpose (banish Dagon).

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:43 pm

Alduin is the Nordic variation of Akatosh, and only superficially resembles his counterpart in the Nine Divines.

He's less the Nord version of Akatosh, as the Nord version of Auri-El. I guess I make the distinction, because Akatosh was http://www.imperial-library.info/content/where-were-you-when-dragon-broke-complete-version by the Selective*, to be pro human. Until then, Auri-El had still been worshiped by the Nedes, in more or less his anti-man persona.

So Alduin is the enemy the Nords see in Auri-El, the Alinor Dragon. Auri-El was king of the Aldmer.

Read up on gods and demons here:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-varieties-faith-empire
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-shezarr-and-divines

*The Maruhkati Selective, a fanatical sect of the Alessian Order, is frustrated that the aspects of the ancient Aldmeri god, Auriel exists within the Supreme Spirit of the Eight Divines, Akatosh. The secret masters of the Maruhkati Selective channel the Aurbis to mythically remove those aspects. The tower or staff appears, and they dance on it until it writhed and trembled and spoke its protonymic. The tower splits into eight pieces and the Time (Dragon) break. Non-linearity of the Dawn Era returns, thus it is known as the Middle Dawn. Tamriel sleeps through the disaster for 'one thousand and eight years', until the pieces of the tower came to rest on the mortal plane. This Dragon Break event is recorded in the first Tamrielic Encyclopedia, but Fal Droon in his work The Dragon Break Reexamined, states that the Dragon Break is invented in the late 3rd era, based on a scholarly error, fueled by obsession with eschatology and Numidiumism, and perpetuated by scholarly inertia.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:05 am

On an unrelated but infinitely relevant point, unless he is voiced by http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uvPXTDKwWM I will commit ritualistic suicide upon someone else.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:17 pm

From http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-varieties-faith-empire:

Alduin (World Eater): Alduin is the Nordic variation of Akatosh, and only superficially resembles his counterpart in the Nine Divines. For example, Alduin's sobriquet, 'the world eater', comes from myths that depict him as the horrible, rauaging firestorm that destroyed the last world to begin this one. Nords therefore see the god of time as both creator and harbinger of the apocalypse. He is not the chief of the Nordic pantheon (in fact, that pantheon has no chief; see Shor, below) but its wellspring, albeit a grim and frightening one.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:01 am

So this will mean that the pshysical form of Akatosh in Oblivions ending is not the same as the one in Skyrim?

Think about it like the difference btw the different variations of The Buddha. They're different looks and different lessons to teach and different perspectives on achieving Nirvana, but they're all the same being. Technically speaking at least.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:41 am

My personal favorite is the Aqua Buddha.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:14 am

My theory is the OB version wasn't truly Akatosh, but rather a manifestation created using the stored Aetherial energy funneled by White-Gold into the stone Chim-al-adabal (Amulet of Kings). Martin was consumed by the release, but he provided the shape of Akatosh (what he thought Akatosh looked like), and the manifestation's purpose (banish Dagon).

I think it was. Akatosh is bound by truce whilst that amulet exists, and I think he deceived Martin into destroying the amulet so he and dragons would not be bounded to the Empire any longer.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:47 am

it has the same soul and was the same idea before it bound it'self to Mundus. It's only different because belief shapes the Aedra.

That sounds intriguing. Could you give me a link to where this is explained?

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:27 am

That sounds intriguing. Could you give me a link to where this is explained?

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-monomyth, but also http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-varieties-faith-empire, which I hope they update, and update well.

The gods of Tamriel's pantheons typically mirror each other, as they do on Earth, so pay attention to the archetypes.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:15 pm

Not sure which speculation thread to dump this in but here goes:

1. Aldudagga has Lorkhan and will-be-Dagon stealing bits of the Kalpas.
2. Presumably to make Mundus.
3. Sticking all the stolen bits of the Kalpas back someplace to prevents Alduin from ending it. Too much too eat to fill his stumach.
4. Mehrunes was made to get all the stolen bits back so the Kalpa could end.
5. Alduin is comming back now. So all stolen bits have been returned.

So what were these stolen bits and how were they destroyed?

Presumably bits of Lorkhan, or rather bits of his essence. He's always been a bit odd for the son Padomay. He's always been more then the Daedra, he was able to present himself as an Aedra to other Aedra. So what if Lorkhan stuck those bits of stolen Kalpa onto himself to be more, to be both?

Now his essence is gone or destroyed, both his Heart under Red Mountain as well as the Amulet of Kings. So Alduin can continue eating the world.

Probably needs a fact check.

edit:

There has been an idea floating around that in all the previous games Lorkhan was being liberated from his imprisonment in Mundus. What if he wasn't being freed, but rather destroyed entirely?

Or both?

edit:

I also hope someone didn't come up with the same thing yet, I haven't kept up with most speculation.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:16 am

The missing pieces remind me of the gods, or Earthbones. Bringing Convention (back) together, perhaps.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:32 am

Hrmm...His essence is the things from the previous Kalpa he stole. I dunno, proweler, it sounds right, but doesn't taste right for some reason. Shor's heart and the Amulet of King couldn't have been the only pieces he hid.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:29 am

Hrmm...His essence is the things from the previous Kalpa he stole. I dunno, proweler, it sounds right, but doesn't taste right for some reason. Shor's heart and the Amulet of King couldn't have been the only pieces he hid.

They're the ones I could readily identify as his essence. Might have been all the bits that have been destroyed or gone missing in the past games.

And while we're at it, anybody ever asked how Umarils father got into this Kalpa?

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:51 pm

I don't remember, so I'll assume no.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:01 pm

The imprisoned Lorkhan archetype can't persist if he's freed. If the God-under-the-Mountain breaks out, he's not exactly trapped, and there goes Lorkhan.

The Gold Dragon Claw-thingy from the article sounds like another piece, by the way. It mentioned you're looking for it.

The Mer aren't only trying to free their God, they're trying to prevent Man from forming in the Pattern of Possibility. As if they're caging him to Oblivion, or hiding his pieces someplace.

All mortal life started on the starry heart of Dawn's beauty, Tamriel. The gods are foreigners.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:41 am

How should we take http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-five-songs-king-wulfharth-2 and it's The Doom Drum bit? In there it is said that Lorkhan gets his heart, but it's been so long time with out heart that he needs time. Time to do what? What/who in act is Lorkhan?

Also Arcturian Heresy states that after these events Ysmir thinks/knows Lorkhan to be dead and instead pursuing Heart in Morrowind he gets obsessed about paying back Tribunal/Dunmer for destroying Lorkhan.

The Secret Song of Wulfharth Ash-King makes me (again) wonder if heart of Lorkhan really was destroyed/freed in Morrowind. Well it was freed from binding Tribunal put it into, but if we believe that Secret Song then Lorkhan needs to reach it and it won't just pop to him.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:17 am

Presumably bits of Lorkhan, or rather bits of his essence. He's always been a bit odd for the son Padomay. He's always been more then the Daedra, he was able to present himself as an Aedra to other Aedra. So what if Lorkhan stuck those bits of stolen Kalpa onto himself to be more, to be both?

Now his essence is gone or destroyed, both his Heart under Red Mountain as well as the Amulet of Kings. So Alduin can continue eating the world.

I've been thinking the the amulet was a piece of the old kalpa. It played a pretty big role throughout history, but isn't mentioned in the scrolls. As for the rest, take a look at places Dagon's attacked in past. The Battlespire comes to mind(I think it was destroyed afterwards wasn't it?), he's also attacked Mournhold and completely destroyed it once.(Anything of note there?)