jsut HOW much this is going to break all the other mods? and this is too bad! this thing is incredible!

its not. the mod rescales cyrodiil in another worldspace so it should have no effect on the Tamriel worldspace were the game (and mods) take place. in other words, youre not going to have any mods in the rescaled version.

this is based on the first post and on the site, im still in the process of downloading this.

Np. I've been checking on this occasionally, just in case a miracle has happened.



Considering that tediousness, i think in many cases even a lot of time put to hacking up some automation for importing and converting would still be faster (and more rewarding) than doing things by hand, wherever automation is possible. Couldn't pathgrids and coordinates be easily converted?

well, a lot of work could be cut by ditching the cities all together. i mean come on, we have 4 times the area to build stuff on, so cities and villages can be bigger and more realistic. some sort of converter could probably be written, but im not sure how accurate it would be. all annwyn does is stretch the heightmap and import it back in, which means that the land is not only twice as high but also more stretched out than before. terrain elevation and displacement is probably not that easy to calculate, a lot of edits would still have to be done by hand.

Lightwave did mention that he wrote a placement program to rescale and position objects. it's unreleased, so i cant vouch as to its workings, but i suppose that just inputting a scale of 1 (instead of two or three) would make it place the normal sized objects on the new heightmap.

if enough interest builds up to take this to development level i definitely want to be there

on a kind of random note, what kind of DL speeds are normal for a regular Nexus acount? im getting miserable 7KB/s atm, rises to 14 and then drops back to 7 :/ who to blame: nexus, filesize, comcast?

I have only just read through this thread and it does seem to be good enough to take it upto development level


Als, sometime its nexus thats slow others its you ISP, it really depends on the server you have chosen and its current load.

managed to download and play with this some.

Tamrielx2.esp crashes at 88% (at cell (-58,-12)) if loading it as an Active plugin. works fine if its not active. since making an esp dependent on another esp is not all that smart ill try turning it into an esm.

I made some minor modifications (added some map markers, some buildings, and edited some landscape) and saved it in a separate esp. when loading both it gave me a bunch of " Non-parent form '' (editorID) exists in both file 'Myesp.esp' and 'Tamrielx2.esp' " errors.

There were also holes and displaced cells off in the water.

just reporting, if anyone cares

Funny thing to say. There's nothing wrong with making an ESP which is dependent on another ESP. Many of my mod compatibility patches would not exist without ESPs dependent on other ESPs. Most likely there is an error in the 2nd ESP, which once repaired will allow it to be opened without a crash.

Ive had some problems with esp's modifying esp's in the past, though it seems fine this time around.

it only crashes if the Tamrielx2.esp is loaded as the active file, so there is no 2nd esp to have an error in. except for the load errors, everything works fine when i load two esps (Tamrielx2 and my modification thereof).

hmmm... more space to hunt and frolic in.. How come Ive never seen this project before? o_o
I am dissapointed in myself.

I really liked this up until I saw the poor little nord in the huge chair, thats a bit of a turn off but if activators and all that could stay the same size, Id be sold.

if Everything gets scaled up, you could easily simulate that by making all the npc's tiny. :/

Ah, I see. Certainly for what you are working with, it is wise for the Tamrielx2.esp to be an ESM instead, as many people don't know how to make an ESP dependent on another ESP. Making it an ESM will make it far easier to create other mods based in the scaled x2 Tamriel.

Actually, its impossible to rescale the size of the player and simulate this effect.

And its not really a project [yet] per say, just a proof of concept. its up to someone else to pick this up and remake cyrodiil in the larger worldspace.

Just tried it out in game. a couple LOD bugs but otherwise gorgeous. feels completely epic. the only other problem are horrendous load times.

Mmm, this definately is one of those things that I would love to be a part of.

If I had like three more lifetimes worth of free time that is... or if some crazy rich man or woman would pay me to do it.

Even if someone manages to create an automated object export/import program, pretty much nothing would end up placed properly. So we'd have to go in and change everything by hand anyway. And that would take ages.
When that's done, we'd need to place all the doors leading to existing interiors (using existing interiors would at least cut the total required time in half). The cities would definately need overhauls, as the larger world would make the current cities look like simple fortresses. It's still possible to just leave them and the current city worldspaces as they are though.
Then we have to create pathgrids (I don't know how efficient the "automated" pathgrid placement is, but I'm guessing - Not very.
Then when that's done, we'd need to change every single AI package for the NPCs and place them at their "new" locations (unless they start in interiors).
After that, marker placement time - Every important marker in the game needs to be in the new worldspace.
And finally, when all references are placed and the world is setup. We need to check all quests and all scripts and update them so they point to the right references and worldspaces.

How many years did it take for Bethesda to create Oblivion?


Damn, I'm sorry, I'm pretty negative about this. I still absolutely love the idea. But I just can't see this being done by people not getting paid

For anyone still interested in the massive world idea, isn't Mesogea (or some name like that) still up and running as a WIP? The differencein here would be that we wouldn't need to create new resources, we would just need to copy everything. So with that in mind, maybe this is more actually plausible that that one...

with dedicated modding this can be done in a year. all the resources are there it just needs placement. exterior landscapes can be procedurally generated in a couple of days. things like camps and ruins can be copy-pasted and adjusted, which is easy but boring as hell. Cities should be done new in their own worldspaces -- this is probably the longest world building step. Linking doors is once again a very basic task, just time consuming. Quests and AI is probably the hardest part as it includes all those little steps without which things just mess up hard core (at least in my experience).

i think the main reason this is not going to get done is not scale or lack of interest but how boring it would be. unless cyrodiil is rebuild from the ground up with our own imagination it would involve little more than copy and paste, which most modders probably arent that interested in doing.

the biggest drawback i have found so far with the file itself is that it takes for ever to load. i managed to get dressed, go to the bathroom, unload the dishwasher for a family of 6, and still have time to sit around and be bored while the game loaded my savefile. furthermore, i experienced small lags between cell loads akin to those in morrowind. the cell load lags arent a big issue for me (again, morrowind player) but the time it takes to load games, fast travel, or sleep totally ruins my experience. i dont like waiting 10+ minutes

PS. you would be surprised what unpaid people are capable of doing

Hm, four times the size - that would mean that cities would have to be four times the size as well. I could imagine this to become a problem, because there are only around 10 (?) different buildings for each city in vanilla Oblivion. It could become very repetitive. Or the team would need some really good city builders.

Apart from that: A Cyrodiil as big as this would be a great opportunity to bring some [i]civilisation[/url] to the game. There would be no problems with adding huge grain and wheat fields around the villages and the cities. The roads could be very detailed (and there should be much more roads as well, leading to the borders and connecting the villages with the main roads etc). There could be relatively big safe areas around villages/cities without any creatures around. Many of the mines could still be in use, because there's more space for dungeons now anyway.
And Cyrodiil could get a completely different, more mediterranean vegetation, while we're at it. A mix of mediterranean France and Italy...
That would be really awesome.

The worldspace needs carving up into two, three or four smaller worldspaces (either cut in half, or cut into three vertical strips, or cut into quarters) to improve load times. Which then of course means that travelling between the worldspaces when you reach the border between two of them loses immersion, since while you could easily set some large automatic invisible doors along each border, you won't get transported to the exact same location in the other worldspace, since however big a door might be, the teleport end-point will always be the size of a person, so you may pass through the door at one end, and end up a hundred in-game metres away from that location in the next worldspace (if each automatic door was perhaps 200 in-game metres wide). You could place hundreds of smaller automatic invisible doors to improve accuracy, but this again would be tedious to set up, and may increase lag along worldspace borders due to the number of objects loaded.

An alternative would be to try to create natural and man-made barriers along vast lengths of each border (rocks, steep mountains/hills, rivers whose far bank cannot be climbed up, brick walls, etc.) so that there are a number of smaller pass-through points, reducing the number of linking doors between each worldspace. But this looks unnatural, having long lines of "natural" barriers.

I'd suggest giving this a go - split the worldspace into two, and see how save game load times are affected.

A couple of quick (very) optimistic notes :

• Bravil is on an island, so fitting it in 2x map would involve checking the rope bridge's placement and making some new sea floor.
  
• Same thing with the IC, and there's a promising mod in development that could really use more space (http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=942310).
  
• There are also some other new places ready or in development that would need a more spacious world to feel "right" (imho ofc), like http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=869816, http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=940317, and some other village additions that i've forgot.
  
• The unique landscapes mod could use more space, and Chorrol hinterlands would be a nice way to fill up any empty space around Chorrol.
  
• Now this one is really a long shot to say the least, but http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=876684&view=findpost&p=13528403 msiewert is interested in also supporting tes4 with Crystal Scrolls, eventually. I don't remember tbrick mentioning anything about it regarding OpenMW, but who knows. The point being, there's apparently some problems in scaling up to the 2x map with the current tes4 engine, which might be possible to avoid with a custom engine.

Given my lack of knowledge on the subject, I couldn't exactly assess the relevance of these notes, but the important thing about this is that there might be a huge "interest potential" in a 2x map (That's why i necroed this thread).

Edit: Looks like i managed to get quite a few "mights" and "coulds" in one post.

any news right now?

This would appear to be dead or forgotten, or just moved to a new thread? I looked, but didn't see a new thread...

If the project is dead, then that's kinda sad.

Well, it was a cool concept, anyway.

Any update or is this project dead?

Long dead.

wow old thread.

Your best bet is probably Tamriel Worldspace Modding Project.

I would be interested in working on this project if there is still a glimmer of hope left for it. I have a lot of experience working on boring mods, most of which never make it to the mapping stage (just lots of fun coding). I would be totally capable of helping to move all of the old worldspaces over to the scaled version, but I wouldn't want to lead this project.

Everything from the old worldspace is already moved across. But every object has also been scaled up too, and most objects are floating or buried as the different scale doesn't suit the coordinates of the placed objects. What is needed now is for every single cell to be checked over, and its contents either rescaled back down if it should have been upscaled, or repositioned to rest properly on the rescaled ground. Then some land texturing and vertex shading to each cell would need adjusting to match the changes just made.