In the ES games when one summons a Skeleton (zombie, lich, ect) from where are they summoned? I understand Deadra come from Oblivion, but is there some sort of undead realm that these creatures are summoned from? or are we simply creating a skeleton from thin air?
Has this at all been explained in game?

Either poor necromancy or from Vaermina's Nightmare.

Perhaps you summon a skeleton from Nirn. You can summon things from other planes, and the spells work fine on other planes, so it seems reasonable that things on the mortal plane can be summoned.

Then wouldn't it be considered Necromancy? You are manipulating the dead.
On a sidenote if that is true could it theoretically be possible to summon a person though these means?

Before someone points out Haskill, technically, you're simply telling him to come and he is compelled to attend to you. You are summoning him in the classic sense of the word, but not in how you mean.

EZ mode necromancy. Allows one to easily have undead minions, without having to collect bones, flesh, etc.

The only true summoning going on is summoning daedra, ghosts, and Haskill. With the case of Haskill, however, it's only because you're Sheogorath, so it's your realm, your rules. With daedra, you're ripping them away from a plane of Oblivion, creating a loophole, and send them into Mundus. However, a practitioner needs to have the mental fortitude to control their daedroth, else it will start wrecking everything around it and possibly kill the summoner (there are mentions of newbie practitioners losing control of scamps, for example, in the game). Ghosts operate on the same principle, except you're ripping a soul from the Dreamsleeve instead of Oblivion.

Using the power of plot hole and "hope nobody notices", of course.

Or maybe it's a lesser daedroth in the form of a skeleton.

Did some research of my own and came up with someplace called the Soul Cairn.
From the wiki

Could this have anything to do with it?

No, it's just a part of that pocket realm.

A.) Necromancy is a school of magic as defined by the mages guild. These schools were not based off the effects of the spells, but rather the manner in which they were cast. B.)Conjurers don't only summon Daedra in the lore, they summon everything from water to eachother's thoughts. So theoretically, if they agreed (your Daedra agrees to come, which is why conjuration should fall under personality), sure.


I hate to say it, but I disagree with you (and Prowler) on this. Since you can summon things from parts of Nirn, it is likely that you are in fact summoning a pre-built skeleton. If it were symbolic for necromancy, the mages guild in Oblivion wouldn't have sold the spells. In Morrowind, I believe you built a centurion and then summoned it to you when you needed it.

Well the strange thing is that summoning undead was considered to be necromancy in Morrowind, yet in Oblivion the guild still sells those spells, apparently they don't care.

Centurion was a pre-built robot, only learned because you looked at the plans on how to create one in MW. Also, summoning a wolf and bear was less of taking a bear/wolf from one place, and putting it next to you and more of calling the spirits of nature to assist you in the form of a wolf/bear

Lore-wise it's finding a dead body and raising it as an undead, but for the game mechanics it would be too complicated so it's just shown as summoning a skeleton.

Could you remind me where the spell foe summoning a centurion was acquired?

A Telvanni quest to pick up some robot plans, and other parchment from a dwemer ruin. The Mages Guild may have had something similar.

Summoning skeletons from Vaermina is a really boring idea. She's got dreams and nightmares under her control, and you borrow an average skeleton from her? Why not summon the hellhound with razor sharp teeth that runs at 100 mph? Then summon your wet dream girl after the fighting.

The reason they let you summon all these things is because conjuration is easy for the devs to make. Casting the spell just loads one of the creatures they've already made for the game, so they might as well let you summon everything.

Lore wise I'd prefer to stick with the notes on corpse preparation that say necromancers have to assemble skeleton warriors and such. My method to transport them to the battlefield would be to cast mark on them, then call them to yourself when you need them. Only daedra would be summonable in the traditional sense. Stuff like bears would have to jog it in when you need them, but they would stay until they died or were sent away.

But shades, in lore you can summon things other than daedra. As i mentioned, http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-doors-oblivion and http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-disaster-ionith.

Most relevant to the question at hand about summoning skeletons is this passage from The Black Arts on Trial,

Well, if they summoned water, it would return to Oblivion before the kidneys processed it. Creating things with Alteration must be different from Conjuring them, as the conjured items return. In Daggerfall you could use the create item spell to get anything from leather to daedric armor, then sell it to the shops. It permanently stayed in the game. As for thoughts, it does seem more likely that conjuration involves some mind control. Though they had telepathy in Daggerfall and Arena without a school of conjuration. I think it was mysticism. The necromancer Mannimarco didn't speak with you telepathically in Daggerfall while the orcish witches do.

The quote you've given is right and all, but it mostly tells me they haven't thought out the schools of magic well enough yet. By manipulating souls and making objects be powered with them, shouldn't Enchant just be named Necromancy? They sound like the same principle. Though they say necromancy requires blood to be cast, which holds up with the game Redguard.

It's because SCHOOLS AREN'T GROUPINGS OF SIMILAR EFFECTS!!!!!

They are groupings of effects that are CAST in similar ways. It appears to me that what the Oblivion mages guild outlawed was magic that involved rituals.

Statements like that are the free pass into lame arbitraria.

But it's a true statement. Look at ANY in-game description of magical schools.