Lockpicking should be reliant on character skills, not player skills.
So no minigame please.

Mages can opt to use open spells, there is no problem with that.

I didnt like the many unopenable locks though. I should be able to open any lock. Other mechanisms can be devised to keep me out of areas Im not supposed to go yet, but please no locks that 'require' a key.

For warrior types I would like to see the option to bash a lock that Daggerfall had return.

I'd be sad to see the mini game go. Though then again, it did get incredibly frustrating at times...

Also a acidic potion would be sweet.

But it would be even more liklier to damage or even bar that door forever.

Lock pick skills-For picking locks, making traps and fun gizmos like grenades. Since Alteration can do other things than opening locks so should lock picking.

actually- with oblivion- it was easier for me to pick locks without a high security skill, so i never used it but could get all the locks open easy.

How about this: We keep the open spell, but rather than have it instantly open the door/chest, it starts the lockpicking minigame with a "magic lockpick". Your ability with it is tied to your alteration skill, rather than your security skill, and if you break it, it costs you extra MP.

How about just having some locks that can't be unlocked with magic ? (you can only open normal chests and doors with basic locks with spells but you need lockpicking for opening more advanced locks without the key.)

No! Keep minigames out of my magic! I imagine some people would like it, but I don't see where lockpicking with a magic lockpick is different than security with the skeleton key, rather than a magic spell.

What would work, IMO, would be increasing the base cost for each spell, and increasing the level required.
But in all honesty, it shouldn't have been too much of a problem. If people use alteration rather than lockpicking, then they are the ones playing how they don't want to.
If people have difficulty playing without magic, they are probably more suited to a spellsword or a nightblade type of character. Since Skyrim allows you to play however you naturally play, they will end up playing a hybrid type anyway.

The thing is, getting into locked chests and doors is something that every character needs to be able to do, regardless of being thief, mage, or warrior. Dungeon crawling makes up a very large portion of the game. Warriors should have bashing as has been mentioned, but I don't think it should be possible to permanently close something so that you can't get into it. Instead, perhaps have items like weapons and armor degrade (but repairable by the smithing skill) and make it loud, alerting nearby enemies or occupants (since a warrior is not meant to be stealthy anyway). I think alteration is fine as is. The problem lies with the usefulness (or lack of) of security. What I would ideally like see done is simply merge security and sneaking into a stealth skill. Sure, it may not make much sense in that they're not too related, but it will at least make a more robust skill. So the stealth area could have Marksman, Stealth (Security + Sneak), Speechcraft, Alchemy, Acrobatics, and possibly Hand-to-Hand as a quiet fatigue-damaging skill to knock enemies out if you want to take a non-lethal route. Now, based on what kind of character you are, you pick the appropriate skill containing the perk tree you need for lock-bypassing (one or two handed, stealth, or alteration). I think the balancing and role-playing is more important than the details of the mini-game.

I agree, but nice to see some more improvements like
High level locks must have traps, thats need to be disarmed
Security Rebalance Traps and Bash Locks v126
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2152
(An old mod but very nice, it's pity there is no any compatible and less conflict remake of this mod)
Traps return of traps will be awesome thats will make lockpicking actual good there can be checks for character security perk level and agility and luck attributes for first when %PCname start attempt of lockpicking if he agile enough and luck on his side he will avoid of triggering of trap (traps will alert enemies around and can do damage)
perk level will determine level of lock thats can be opened by character if it enough for thats lock will be opened minigame like in oblivion but with some changes
for first it must be realtime not in menumode so player can be found by patrolling guards

For second when player will attempt open lock thats to has greater requirements then player have in security skills or perks
Lock mechanism become hidden from view, use your hearing sense instead of X-ray eyes
Blind Lockpicking with Graphical Addition & Modmans Lock Dif
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3742

For second Auto-Attempt must be completely depend on attributes skills and perks, if player critically fail lockpicking try trap can become triggered or lockpick will break.

Open lock spell must be rare or high level, it can trigger traps so mage must be prepared for thats there must be possibility of fail casting of Open lock spell
or there can be also introduced new type of lock magical lock thats can be opened by Open spell or Dispel.
With telekinesis they can work good since we can trigger trap telekinetic by distant and then come close ant use open on lock by touch.
Traps can be dispelled or silenced

Warrior characters can bash locked door and containers if have enough strength and good weapon, they must be prepared also since bashing is loud act and definitely will trigger traps.
Lock Bash Omega
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25040

Actually use key to close doors both by character and NPC
Enhanced Key Functionality
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27719
Merchants change lockpicked and broken locks if they was bashed or someone stole keys from shop owner after some time (3 days like before for example) like in this mod
Reneers KeyLock Mod
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=33630
Nice to see closed and guarded city doors at last at night
Merchants shops must have closing and opening time and this time can be different some mystical shops for example can be opened in evening and night, closing time can work with their daily activities well, thats part of Radiant AI, player can ask merchant about his work schedule.
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27147
Storage rooms in shops guarded protected and off limits, guild vaults, treasury in castles, banks and museum that can be ultimate heist for sneak characters.
Merchants have secured storage with goods they are sell, its located somewhere in shop locked and can be guarded, merchants not allow go to storage and thats is work like trespassing.
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9655
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5156
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9357
NPC can hire security from Fighter Guild to patrol their shop and get rid of thieves, I'd like how NPC react in oblivion if player sneaking around or trying drag item somewhere, but thats can be tweaked more like in this mods
Put it in its Place - Enhanced Grabbing
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19847
Reneers Guard Overhaul
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5977

No worthless cluter, there must be price for all items, some items must have greater price
Better leveling of loot in houses like in
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4318

Alteration spells and the skeleton key removed the purpose of lockpicking from Oblivion. I am fine with how it was done in Oblivion because it did not require you to be a master lockpicker to open a very hard lock. It was really hard when I first started playing Oblivion in 2006, once I got the hang of it all locks became easy. They should make a harder version of what was in Oblivion. As long as its not like Fallout I am fine, I did not like the idea of having to be a certain skill level to even attempt that did not seem realistic to me. Sure a noob lockpicker should not be able to get into a hard lock, but he should have the ability to try. As long as it is not as simple as Two Worlds 2 or as annoying as Fallout 3/NV then I'm good.

What if the alteration spell has a chance of backfiring, knocking you back and taking off some health? That'd help balance it.

I'll throw the game outta the window if it tells me "you cannot pick this lock because your skill in not enough" and still have a player-based minigame system.

I hated the Oblivion lock-picking mini-game. The only element of the game that should be partially twitch-based is combat IMNSHO.

That being said, Morrowind made lock picking a little too easy. Picks should've had fewer uses, the "lock too complex" upper limit should have been lowered, and opening a 100 point lock should have cost your character 200 magicka, and failed half the time even at 100 Alteration. It would make the Detect Key spell a great deal more useful.

I expect the way they fixed lockpicking vs open spell i rather obvious... Now instead of lockpicking vs alterations its likely sneak vs alterations where the main duty of the skills isnt opening things so they bopth are on an equal footing again. With perk trees they way they are its garanteed whatever skill governs opening things is also doing something else.. like setting traps or finding them or hbiding or or or. Just opening things wouldnt make for a perk tree.....

it will be very dramatic and fun in underwater lockpicking for non-argonian players

Well if Lockpicking system will be improved you will have both option reworked Auto-Attempt will suit for RPG players who like when their character with skills lockpicking and dislike minigames and improved minigame for those who don't like dice rolls, but you must agree Lockpicking minigame was to easy in Oblivion
personally I broke only three lockpicks trough all game with security skill around 30, it need to be harder.


Then Bash thats pesky lock with weapon or use Open lock spell.

After about 3-4 times using the lockpicking mini-game, this sequence became the most used one on my keyboard:

1. Press ` Key
2. Click on Chest/Door
3. Type "Unlock"
4. Press Enter Key
5. Press ` Key

I just sold all my lockpicks after that.

A harder version of the Oblivion lock picking minigame would be fine with me (tumblers falling quicker with a shorter interval to click to hold tumbler up), but have your Security skill level play a bigger role in the minigame (the higher your skill increases the interval to lock a tumbler in place). Not just the number of tumblers that fall if you fail. If you have 5 or 6 tumblers a Hard or Very Hard lock would have the last one or two tumblers that snap shut almost impossibly fast if you have a low Security skill. As your skill goes up the those last tumblers snap shut slower.

Bashing chests I think is a must for non-stealth/non-magic characters.

As it was in Oblivion each difficulty of a lock (easy, hard, etc...) had a number value. Make the open spell in Alteration generate a random number with your Alteration skill factored in. If the number generated is greater than the number for the lock, it opens. If not the attempt fails, you lose the magicka in casting and you need to do it again. If you have a low Alteration skill and a hard lock it would be almost impossible to generate a random number high enough to open it, but still a slight chance. But you could run thru all of your magicka that way.

That way Alterations Open spell would neither need multiple levels (open easy lock, open average lock, etc...) nor make it an easier option over Security. Either way, both Security and Alteration would require the player to make an investment in the skill of their choice if they wish to get into those chests/doors.

As long as its not RNG casting/picking, I dont care if its player or character based. RNG is just plain poor and lazy design.

Make Security skill relate to how many tumblers you can 'see' in the lock, but probably have it more interesting and complex than Oblivions. Or have tumblers randomly placed(yeh I know what I just said).

Then rework how Unlock spells work altogether. Instead of just opening it have one Unlock spell that works like Security does where depending on your Alteration skill it will show you more/less of the lock.

Edit: If you wanted to have locks skill-gated then have it so you can only open the locks you can 'see', so its still based on Security and Alteration. But I hate that.

I love the lockpick miningame. I think it makes it more realistic. I would hate to see if go.