I've heard a lot of people say with certainty that Sithis (the "Sithis" worshiped by the Dark Brotherhood) and Lorkhan are the same. Why? I've never gotten a straight-up answer other than Sithis' statue in the Vile Lair has a hole where his heart should be, which could easily be written off as something else. I've never been able to find any other information regarding this.

If Sithis is Lorkhan, does he actually want the Dark Brotherhood to murder people? How is Lorkhan able to have any direct influence on the Mundus? Or is it just one big misunderstanding?

The version of Sithis the DB seems to worship is more of Shor than anything. However, a bunch of psychopathic sociopaths are not going to have the best grip on reality.

But, Shor has been known as the soul of Sithis, who is the soul of Padomay, making Shor the soul of the soul of Padomay. So, it's close enough.

As to why they believe killing gives him jollies, well, think of Shor as mortality, and they worship the side of mortality that involves death. As for whether they care or not, I say no. For Sithis, it's like sacrificing to gravity. In the end, you'll still fall down at 9.81 m/s^2 just like anyone else.

I think I understand. They believe that Lorkhan's intent in tricking the Aedra was an act inspired by Sithis, but while they believe to be worshiping Sithis because they believe him to be responsible, they are actually worshiping Lorkhan who apparently acted on his own whims? Seeing as Sithis has no whims.

Is that essentially the idea behind Lorkhan being credited as Sithis or am I wrong?

Sithis is either a subgradient of or is Padhome/omay. Shor/Talos/Lorkhan/Shezzar/Reman is the largest subgradient of Sithis.

Wow, this is an interesting topic, good find :thumbsup: I never noticed the whole thing with the Sithis statue and what he had to do with Lorkhan/Shor, supposedly. What Hellmouth posted is maybe your best answer IMO :foodndrink:

Nah, I gave a half-assed version of what proweler said.

It really all springs from the idea of Sithis being "chaos". They seem to believe that Sithis wants to bring choas into the world, saying Sithis "wants" anything is missing the mark though. Murder can be seen as chaotic, and I guess over time it just morphed from chaos to death since death was their preferred tool.

Even if their Sithis is really Lorkhan they are still doing a fair amount of misinterpretation. Remember they are killers not theologians.

Which was Source of Chaos' summation of them. Though, you can see a god in their mayhem.

The Morag Tong worship Black Hands Mephala, the Daedric Prince of secret murder among other things. It seems likely to me that as the DB splintered off from the Morag Tong, they may have initially worshiped Mephala as well. Somehow through the years this warped into a worsip of "Sithis" with the Night Mother as his High Priestess. Except the Night Mother may be just an avatar of Mephala. It could be the DB never stopped worshiping her at all, but simply know her by a different name. Why would a Daedric Prince tolerate her followers performing acts in the name of "Sithis"? Perhaps it's because "Sithis" is really Lorkhan, and who has done more to create amusemant for the Daedra than Lorkhan? Mundus gave the bored and fickle Princes of Oblivion a grand stage upon which many dramas of life and death could be played out for their amusemant - at least that's how they'd see it. I would imagine Mephala, being Prince of secret murder, would be most fond of the mortals and their sphere.

I'm no lore buff so this is probably not going to go well, but I though they were connected at least in part because they are both non-Aedra padomic entities that aren't Deadra either.

They're non-Aedric/non-Daedric but only because they predate those terms.

Remember terms like Aedra and Daedra were assigned to certain beings in hindsight. In the beginning there was only Anu and Padomay. Anu begat Anuiel. Padomay begat Sithis. Anuiel begat the et'Ada and Sithis begat Lorkhan, and Lorkhan saw the Tower and had an idea. Some of the et'Ada chose to help Lorkhan and became Aedra. Some did not and became Daedra. It's important to note that both the Aedra and Daedra were originally children of Anu. There was at the time no distinction between them. Only Lorkhan through Sithis seems to have been a purely Padomaic creation, though I may be mistaken and would be glad to have my error pointed out.