Modders dont need wide open spaces in the world to mod a dungeon, all they need is room to add in a door to the world. This then takes you into the dungeon which can be as large as you want.

For me Oblivion was not cluttered, yes the MAP looked cluttered if all locations were found, but in reality when 2 dungeons looked like they were right next to each other on the map they were really a fair distance apart when in the game, no they were not miles apart, but far enough to not seem close.

The main problem was the compass highlighting dungeons that were close by, even if you had not been there before. I hope this is something that is removed from Skyrims compass. Feel free to highlight explored dungeons or places but not those that have yet to be found

My personal issue with landmass/dungeons index is that the wilderness in most places is dungeon with another place only a stones throw away. in some places it was so bad as there were normal npc locations nearly touching a ruined fort and it is totally unrealistic. I dont think it would be as much as a bother to most people to have a larger map with more open spaces between the same number of dungeons as it would bother people who feel that every thing is to close to each other. And its not an issue of land mass takes too much time to make, because with the tools that the devs and modders use you can make a Bravil sized area in only a couple of seconds, and fill it with plants and rocks in a minute or two.



not all mods are just new dungeons. most exterior mods are things like new buildings or forts. besides, thats only true if your making a cave. any thing else takes much more space than just a door, especailly ayleuliod (sp) ruins.

the map did not just look cluttered (I am talking about the actually map but not the ingame one you use for fast travel and such) it was cluttered. there were several places where a settlement and a monestary were right next to a dungeon with badies walking around that would either kill every one or just ignore them. both svck when they happen.

I agree with the map markers revealing locations to easily, but I think this is mostly dev error since some marker spots don't match up right to where the location is, I think it should remain as a system but the area should be much smaller. I am not too sure about the compas part because I think I would miss it even thou it is not realistic.

Well as a console gamer more empty space for mods isnt helping me out since it will alwayse be empty space..but the idea of grander dungeons quality over quantity is nice...but mods would be cool...i hope ps4 has mod capabilities and switchable updateable graphics cards...thatd be the bees knees

well, ideally empty spaces should not be just empty spaces. just a space that doesn't have a dungeon or any other non natural physical structure. to make empty spaces valuable for non PC gamers and non modders would be to have larger quanities of useful ingrediants in those empty spaces. infact there are alot of those already.

also the empty spaces don't have to be just one huge region of emptiness, the map could be bigger with the dungeons evenly distributed with more space between the dungeons. non PC gamers would not really notice because the dungeons would have massive space between them and horses would be slightly faster than in OB so that getting from one side of the map would not be a chore (unless you fast travel)

I'm surprised nobody has yet made the point that "too many dungeons where I want to mod" isn't a problem that can't be solved by a modder?
It's really easy, just... remove those dungeons. Or to be more specific, find a location that suits your needs AND has dungeons that aren't important. Then remove those dungeons and make sure that your own dungeon is actually worth this sacrifice. (I might blow your mind now, but you could also move the entrances to those dungeons into your own dungeon!) Problem solved.

I will agree, however, that the world of Oblivion was too cluttered with dungeons. Because they took away the space that would have been taken by farms, larger villages, towns, forts that are still in use, roads with traffic on them and so on.

the point I was making was not that there was not enough space for modders (at least not the main point) or that there were too many dungeons. I thought that there where plenty of dungeons, just not enough map space to accomidate them. the issue is that the map is too small, not that there were too many dungeons.

besides, I am pretty sure one of the many modder credos is not to remove content but to add more content to the game (unless its really bad), modders don't need to remove dungeons any way they can add more space to the map. my whole point of the devs adding more to the size of the maps is for console users which I am as well. I currently only have MW for PC and morrowind doesn't have an issue with map size, its just right.

We're talking about dungeon density though. You're making the same point as other people who want less dungeons, you're just tackling the issue from another direction. Apart from that, my post wasn't about whatever dungeon density would be good or bad, I was talking about its effect on modding. And in my opinion, there is none. If there are "too many" dungeons, there's a way to solve that.

Demanding that there should be less dungeons so there is more space for dungeons is also nothing but preemptively removing dungeons from the game, so the "modding credo" argument doesn't really work in your favor.