Could the conclusion of Oblivion be what leads to the plot of Skyrim? By that I mean Alduin returning to eat the world. my thought was this.

Alduin = Akatosh, which also is the Elven God Auriel, who seeks to end the world to free itself from it (or it goes in cycles, not really clear on how that works with that previous explanation).

The Marukhati selective, if they really succeeded in altering Akatosh into a more "man-biased" entity, by removing or downplaying (or cut out?) "merish influences, I am thinking that means removing the "world ending" tendencies.

So if this is correct, could it be possible that the events at the end of Oblivion (With Martin and the Amulet of Kings) somehow undid the Selectives changes? That the classic properties of Alduin again become dominating, and this is what leads to an impending destruction of the world, something that may have been long overdue, but delayed because of the Selectives tampering?

I must admit I don't really have a clear conception about what happened with the amulet in the fight with Dagon, but if the Selective once succeeded in changing a God, I guess it could happen again... But I was also wondering if what happened, wasn't as much a change, as a subdividing of different aspects, it might not make sense for the destructive tendencies to lose it's potency like that.

So anyway, if something like this is going on, it would make the endings of the games (Morrowind and Oblivion) pretty similar, in that an apparent victory for "the good guys" leads to disastrous consequences further down the line.

Akatosh was always more man-biased then the Merish/Nordic equivalents. He was designed to be a fully man-biased diety, but they kept some elvish aspects to appease the elves that were living with the newly-made man-based Empire. The Selectives attempted to remove all elvish influences from Akatosh, and caused a dragon break as a result.

Something to keep in mind is that the Dragon God of Time has a severe case of Multiple Personality Disorder. Akatosh wants to protect man, Alduin wants to eat the world so it can be recreated, and Auriel wants to free himself of his prison/Mundus. He wants to do all of these things.

That would support the theory that the A-Dragon is totally bonkers.

But he can only do one thing at once right? I know there is multiple examples of several conflicting histories all being true in the lore, but that concerns the past, not the storyline as they happen in the games. (except for the ending of Daggerfall I guess). I was asking myself why Alduin would end up having a snack now, instead of earlier. But it might be that this doesn't really need an explanation. Would always be cool if it has any connection with earlier games. They do say the Scrolls describe a chain of events in the trailer, and mentions The Oblivion Crisis. Would make sense to be some kind of causality involved.

Actually he can do infinite things at infinite times, as he exists both inside of time and outside of time. He's literally everywhere and everywhen all at once. Such is the nature of any God, especially the God of Time. In Morrowind, Vivec explains what it is to be a God, and part of that is existing in multiple dimensions and times all at once. Tiber Septim for instance has been waging perpetual war against the Aldmeri high priests since before time began, and long after it ends.

As for the prophecy of the Elder Scrolls, the trailer makes it clear that certain portents herald the arrival of Alduin the Devourer. I'm not sure if they're always the same in every single Kalpa, but in this one events like the breaking of the Staff of Chaos, the activation of Numidium, the removal of the enchantments on Shor's Heart and the Oblivion crisis seem to herald his coming. Whether or not these are simply omens or if each one of them broke some kind of metaphysical chain holding Alduin back remains to be seen. I'm reminded of the "Seven Fights" series and Alduin making some remark to the Leaper Demon about how they always try to stop him. so it's entirely possible that in previous Kalpas, a Dragonborn has appeared and ultimately failed.

One common thread of all these games' storylines is that something is broken at the end every single time, whether it's a physical object or a metaphysical concept. Every time. When the Staff of Chaos broke, not only did a physical object, but the Imperial Simulacrum as well. In Daggerfall, the long stalemate/perpatual wars were ended by the Miracle of Peace. In Morrowind, the enchantments on the Heart of Lorkhan were broken, which also broke the divinity of the Tribunal and the House Dagoth high priests. In time this would lead to Morrowind being quite literally broken, when the last of Vivec's power faded. In the shorter term, it led to the break of the Temple's authority in Morrowind, and the sanity of Almalexia. Hell, even Bloodmoon deals with the breaking of a cycle - for the first time, Hircine is defeated at his own hunt. At the end of Oblivion, it seems the Covenant was broken when the Amulet of Kings shattered. Later, Umaril's connection to the spirit world was permanently shattered and he ceased to exist. Later still, the cycle of the Greymarch ended for good.

What's all this leading up to? All these broken cycles? Will the world itself finally break or will Alduin?

I'm reminded of the ancient story of Yahweh vs. Leviathon, which predated Judeo-Christian mythology by some many hundreds of years but still finds its way in a fashion in Psalm 74:



Does the description of Yahweh here remind you of anyone? Who in the Tamrielic mythology is thought by men to have fought the dragon? To have opened up the springs and streams? To establish the boundaries of the earth?

Will the Dragonborn "crush the heads of Leviathan" and "dry up the ever-flowing rivers" (of time/rebirth)?

Maybe I'm seeing a connection that isn't there, but MK has stated before that many elements of TES literature are rooted in Judeo-Christian scripture. I believe there is a parallel here.

no. akatosh and Alduin share the same soul, and sphere; the personification of Anu. However, they can be in different places at different times. In fact they normally are, and it has been said by MK that it's possible that Akatosh would fight Alduin to protect the kalpa.

I wonder if the Altmerish religion was inspired, at least partly, by Gnosistism. Some (they were a divided group) thought the Creator of the world is at best petty and took away humanities' awesome godliness. The good god will destroy the world and return them to grace.

But I'm not trying to start a religious discussion. I think it's interesting, however.

Why would Akatosh intervene if this has happened numerous times before? I'm almost positive that Shor's gonna get guilty and break the cycle.

Alduin has been broken before. That's what a dragon break is... you break the linear flow of time by breaking the God of Time (then the Jills come and put him back together). I read something, though I don't recall where, that said the only way to permanently break the dragon is to surpass CHIM and reach Amaranth. Only when you reach Amaranth do you have the power to end time.

Could it be possible that the cycle of the kalpas will be broken, to end Alduin's hunger, and let the current kalpa continue until the end of time?


This could be his favorite kalpa. That would also tie in with the concept of Akatosh anointing the next Dragonborn, to fight against Alduin, so this kalpa doesn't end.

That's inference, unless I'm mistaken. The Time God wouldn't be capable of perpetuating his tyrany. No more veil of Convention; there is no terminus stone, mortals are free for the always reaching.

It could be that Akatosh didn't exist in previous kalpas. The current world is the only one (that we know of) where Akatosh was actually worshipped as a protector of man, instead of a destroyer of worlds.

I read somewhere that akatosh,threw himself into nirn,rather than leaving,he is bound to it as is lorkhan. ( to me at least anyway )
Maybe he decided to give man a chance ( the pact with alessia ) or it was a trick,so they worshiped him,giving him more power.
Also the daedra to me are change,dagon ( at the time known as the leaper devil/demon king ) and Sep ( the greedy waving man ) -lorkhan...hide parts of the world from alduin.
Thus making the "eating harder" each time,either slowing it down or to prevent it altogether.
Are the daedra "bad"?...maybe not at all...they change things,and to me that interfears with what alduin does....thus maybe protecting man/mortals.
The daedra,seem to interact better with mortals than the other gods ( aedra ).

Not to change the topic, but if nirn is eaten at the end of every kalpa, how is it recreated? Alduin, being both the creator and destroyer, must cause it somehow to re-exist. But it wouldn't make since to have such metaphorical manner of destroying the world and then have it simply reappear anew.

The Redguard creation myth explains it nicely:

Because Akatosh didn't exist, yes. He was created to be a god that still shared aspects of Auriel but to also be man-friendly. Therefore the Akatosh-aspect is man-made, a symbol of days unending (enternity, invincibility, unending legitimacy) by the Marukhati in this kalpa. Auriel and Alduin are both destroyers, and the cultures simply assign the destroyer a moral tag. To hardcoe aldmeri destruction of the world means freedom from the "prison" and a reinstatement of their supposed birthright of divinity. To Nords, it means the test is over.

However, this kalpa has laster much longer than the others. Perhaps, as has been said, each game ends with something breaking. While many of them don't effect the physical world much, they almost certainly have far-reaching effects by removing from the metaphysical kalpa. That means that Mehrunes Dagon's job is near complete, the kalpa is small enough for Alduin to devour it. However, this kalpa has Akatosh the Preserver as well as Shor.

Am I way off with this or do any experts think I may be on the right track?

So Auriel and Alduin are the same, with the only difference being the preservatives of his worshipers and enemies? While Akatosh is also the same, but different since he the Preserver? Like a split personality?

If you want to hammer it into human terms (which makes sense, considering) then sort of. See, it's because gods have different rules. Akatosh is still wholly Alduin/Auriel, but also not that way. At the same time. That can happen. EDIT: Because if a human has multiple personalities, he or she is usually unaware of the other one for some time and can only act individually. Akatosh/Alduin are one being, but can simultaneously act separately.

So The Dragon God of Time is completely insane? He wants to destroy the world to be free (Auriel), wants to destroy the world because it's his job (Alduin), and at the same time doesn't want to destroy the world at all (Akatosh)? So rather than having multiple personalities, he is three personalizes all at the same time?

Edit: Never mind. I didn't see your edit.

So can Auriel/Alduin act separately, or are they exact same being?

Again this is only to the best of my limited knowledge, but so far as I can tell, they wouldn't need to act separately, as they both have the same goal. The thing is, while Auriel has a clear and avowed motive, Alduin is dodgy when he scolds the leaper demon king as to why the kalpa must be devoured. Since they both want to end it, though, it may well just be they do it as one.

As for Akatosh, [NUMINIT] if I know.

The god of time has a bad case of multiple personality disorder. He's a merish defender and liberator, a kalpa eater, and a time preserver.

How the gods act is how the mortals view them. Using Lorkhan/Shor/Shezarr as an example away from the god of time, he's viewed as the trickster, Lokhan, meaning "doom drum," who tricked everyone out of their awesome godhood and immortality. To the nords, he's seen as Shor, who gave his heart and sacrificed many of the greater spirits as a move of divine mercy, in order to allow mortals, the lesser spirits, achieve a plane of existence higher than the gods themselves. Vivec agrees with this view. Then there's Shezarr, a toned down Shor, who is more about the god of human achievement and undertaking, and also much much much less of a mer hater. The former two iterations were the original view of the god of space, where as Shezarr is a man-made concept created later, like Akatosh.

So, opposite to Akatosh, two out of three views of the god of Space puts him in a positive light and 1/3 bad. With the god of time, he's seen 2/3 times as being a destroyer, and 1/3 not being the destroyer.

Now I think I get it, mostly. So if no one believed the God of Time would eat the kalpa, he wouldn't do it? I understood that the gods change depending on the belief of mortals, I was just confused on how it applies itself. Thanks for the help, both of you.

Since Shor/Shezzar/Lorkhan is dead, does he change depending on how mortals view him?

The aedra are dead, but they're not dead in the mortal or lesser daedra sense. Also, Shor does tend to forget he is dead, as his avatars do appear every so often, and a big event always seems to happen whenever they show up.

While that is right, too many people believe he will to change in time, including the Admeri races, who would see it as a good thing, and the Nords, who think it's bad.