I was replaying through the Tribunal Temple faction quest line in Morrowind when I got to the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Molag_Bal_of_the_House_of_Troubles and read an interesting bit of dialogue:



Which begged the question, why have I not heard this story before? I've always had an interest in Molag Bal, and Lorkhan tricking him into becoming mortal sounds like an awesome story. Is there anywhere that this story is written in greater detail?

This does sound like a great story.

It sounds vaguely like the same thing Lorkhan did to all the Aedra, right? I can think of a couple of examples where, if memory serves correctly, an Aedroth become a Daedroth -- did the same occur here?

Where exactly did you hear about an Aedroth becoming a Daedroth?

Before Hellmouth comes here (If I may ) -
Aedra are et'Ada who helped to create Mundus.
Daedra are et'Ada who didn't participate at all in the created of Mundus

Therefore, it's not possible that one became the other...

Unless I guess the factor of belief comes in (am I right about that?)

But about making Molag Bal mortal, maybe he made him mortal so he'll be able to destroy his physical (and mortal) body, sending his spiritual body back to Oblivion. bliviongate:

EDIT:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/guide-daedra

Here! "As written, the Daedra cannot be killed, but can only be banished back to Oblivion. In order to banish a Daedra, its mortal body must be destroyed. " -Banishment Section (read it all!)

Unfortunately I did not find any stories but was written was that you need to use a protonymic that drains all the vital forces from the Deadra, sending him "effortlessly" back to Oblivion. Therefore I guess that Lorkhan either simply used one of these on him or that he simply destroyed his mortal body somehow.

Boethia ate Trinimac, then [censored] him out into a pile called Malacath. Aedra into Daedra. http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-edition-orsinium and http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-anticipations

edit: link

It is easy to define Aedra and Daedra that way. I recall reading somewhere though (forgive me, I can't remember exactly who said it or where) that this is a simplification and is not infallible. I'll try and find the source.

Meridia was Magnus's daughter and was cast from Aetherius into Oblivion for "consorting with illicit spectra."

Others think Magnus is Mehrunes Dagon. I don't necessarily buy into this, but this would also be an example of an original spirit who participated in creation and then became a Daedric Prince.

Trinimac wasn't an Aedra.... He was an Aldmer... a BIG difference.

And Magnus? He is not an Aedra since he didn't GIVE himself to creation like the other Aedras... He still escaped. And we can't be 100% sure he is Dagon.

We know Dagon was 100% the Leaper Daemon King, but we can't be 100% sure that he "leaped so high he tore holes in the sky", and 1) why would Magnus make a deal with Lorkhan exactly? He knew he was tricked no? he would hate Lorkhan instead of trying to stop Alduin with him...
AND why would he want to stop Alduin from eating the world eh? He hated the results (hence why he left)...

As the forum scholars guilds' leading Trinimac expert I can assure you that, pre-Malacathification, he was an et'Ada

Magnus is considered a "Magna-Ge" terminologically, as one of the many spirits who bled the stars into their surface

But I assure you further that Dagon is Dagon, once the Leaper Devil King

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-changed-ones.

Trinimac was not an Aldmer, he was a god of the Aldmer. He participated in the creation of Mundus and was an Aedra, but he was eaten by Boethiah and became Malacath.

No one knows about Bal Ur and mortal Molag Bal?
It seems like such an interesting story, and I find it unlikely that anything Vivec did was not described in detail somewhere.

Trinimac never gave up a piece of himself. He's a hero god, not an aedra.

Keep it simple, if the being in question participated in the creation of Mundus and gave up a piece of itself, it is an aedroth
If it didn't participate in the creation of Mundus, and resides in Oblivion, it is a daedroth
If it didn't participate in the creation of Mundus, and resides in the Aetherius, it's a Magna-ge
If it's none of the above, but a god, it falls in the realm of hero or culture god, or a mortal who ascended.

As for the story in hand, I have no clue.

In "True Nature of the Orcs" it says Trinimac is an Altmeri ancestor spirit, and "Varieties of Faith in the Empire" identifies him as a warrior spirit, but in "Changed Ones" it says he's an et'Ada. What the hell is Trinimac and why has he taken over my topic about Molag Bal?

Thank you Hellmouth, for explaining that (I've been learning from the best )

I'll see your Changed Ones and raise you a http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-true-nature-orcs

He is not really a Daedroth, just because he resides in Oblivion doesn't mean he is one... Again, he neither did nor did not participate in the creation of the world. (Which makes him neither an Aedra or a Daedra)
Gaiar Alata (Paradise) was the plane where Mankar Camoran resided in, it was in Oblivion, yet was he A Daedroth? I don't think so


@Velorien well Pentirei said that there are Aedra who turned into Daedra so we were proving him wrong so you won't think that was the case with Molag Bal

He was a hero god. He never sliced a piece of himself to create Mundus, thus not making him an aedroth. He didn't reside in Oblivion, thus not making him Daedroth. He's not living in the Atherius, thus not a magna-ge. The only thing left is hero or culture god, or an ascended mortal. We know he's not a mortal, so we can discount that. And because he is known outside of the aldmer/altmer culture, we can discount him as a culture god, and since he was a warrior and performed heroic deeds, he can be classified as a hero god.

Calling him an et'Ada wouldn't be wrong either, but that's more of a general term. Also, it makes sense he would be called an altmeri spirit. Think about it, the altmer believe that the only way the gods survived was by having kids. However, those kids got weaker and weaker (mortals). Trinimac isn't a mortal, so I'm sure you can connect the dots here.

Trinimac wasn't a daedroth, Malacath was the daedroth. Trinimac was eaten and pooped out, while Malacath was that poop, went to Oblivion, and made a realm of himself, now known as The Ashpit (or something).

Mankar Camoran created a pocket realm in Oblivion, which is heard of, but not that common. I believe he also had MD help him.

not I think you're just stumbling over semantics

think in terms of Anuic/Padomadic alignment, sphere, and celestial proximity. Malacath is a weirdy but still essentially Daedric. What is more fitting for the Prince of Ostracization than to not even be recognized among the other Princes?

Camoran would be an example of an ascended-sense of mortal. Remember his royal blood, as well.

I haven't been proven wrong. It's how you define the terms. If you argue that being Daedric or Aedric is based simply on whether or not you participated in the Convention, then yes, I am "wrong." This seems an oversimplification, though. Brian S's definition should also be taken into account, though it by itself is also an oversimplification. No one is arguing that Magnus is a Daedra, but he left before he could become Earthbones and hence your definition of Aedra.

To the OP, I'm sorry, I haven't been able to find any other references to this story. It's ripe for monkeytruthing, methinks.

Perhaps Daedric and Divine are interchangeable, hence how Umaril was able to become partially Daedric.

Anyone that's a god is divine. The aedra, daedra, magna-ge, and others is pretty much a label only used to identify who resides where and what they did. Getting into the whole blood of Padomay/Anu is a point that seems to confuse people more, and is nothing but altmer [censored]. The CoC ascended, but became a daedroth (if we can assume he successfully mantled Sheogorath). Tiber was an ascended mortal when he became Talos, but is neither aedra nor daedra. Trinimac was already a divine, but ended up become a daedroth when he was pooped out and made his own realm in Oblivion. Sure, the other princes don't consider him a real one, but that's really only because he was late to the party. If Trinimac was Malacath during the creation of Mundus, then he wouldn't be considered not a daedroth. But, this classification does make Shor an aedroth, which is something that altmer would never, ever agree to.

For Umaril, he's semi-divine, imo. He also bound himself to Meridia.

But then we should also remember that aedra = our ancestor, daedra = not our ancestor, and magna-ge I assume to mean children of Magnus, star, or something of the sort. The dunmer were different, in that they believed the daedra were their ancestors, which is heretical to altmeri belief.

@ Hellmouth: Woah! You're some kind of Lore-God!

On-topic: I think this would make a great story. :thumbsup:

We can think about possible ways no?

I can think of an Alduin + Leaper Daemon King sort of trick, he tricked Molag Bal into pissing someone-he-shouldn't-have-pissed-off off? Though I'm not sure Lorkhan tricked the LDK but Alduin.
And Molag Bal is one of the Daedra from the House of Trouble, maybe that's connected to it? Lorkhan tricked him into not "kneeling" to the Tribunal so in turn some Dunmers or ALMSIVI (or one of them) turned him mortal and sent his [censored] back to Oblivion?


He pissed the Tribunal or the other houses off and I think really pissed off Vivec (poor innocent thing, getting [censored] by Molag Bal... I'm sure he really REALLY doesn't want to talk about it xD)

Almalexia: "Remember the time where you got [censored] by Molag Ba...."
Vivec: "..... YOU HAD TO BRING IT UP AGAIN" *goes to cry in the corner*

I'm not even close. I'm just good with the basics. This story, I don't know what it means. I probably should read the entire sermon, but even then I have my doubts.