Hey folks,

I've always been a fan of the Elder Scrolls series but haven't taken the time to go in depth with the lore. In anticipation of Skyrim, I'm interested in taking the time to get to know the lore behind the series. Anyway, I was wondering if any of you know of any online resources (or anything else) that would help me in my quest to learn. I feel as if a good knowledge of ES lore would further my enjoyment of previous Elder Scrolls games, as well the upcoming fifth installment. So, any help would be appreciated.

(Note: I've searched the web and I can't seem to find a comprehensive account of Tamriel history....this is something I'm most interested in)

http://www.imperial-library.info/

http://uesp.net/
http://www.imperial-library.info/

These two sites are really all you need. They are both fan made, but even the Bethesda devs have said they use them to keep up with the lore in their games because they're so well done.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Monomyth
May I humbly recommend starting with this. If you want history,may as well start with the creation of the world.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1112211-how-to-become-a-lore-buff/

This is perfect guys. Thank you.

Be careful when reading some of the books. I see a lot of people taking things like http://imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-2920-last-year-first-era seriously even though it's in all probability historically-based fiction, in-universe.

To be fair, it's the only source for a lot of important events, and even though it's fiction, it's bound to have some basis in truth.

But yeah OP, keep in mind the fallibility of all in-game texts.

The http://imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-edition-all-eras-man-comprehensive-history-our-history has a great historical overview. http://imperial-library.info/content/tamriel-timeline. I'm also going to second http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1112211-how-to-become-a-lore-buff/. Reading through all of TIL is daunting and largely useless, the guide should give you an idea of the bases you absolutely need to hit.

Your "How to Become a Lore Buff" guide is exactly what I was looking for. Much thanks....I'm looking forward to jumping in.

Going to warn you something. Try to ignore opinion pieces and summaries.I cannot tell you with the vast amount of people led completely astray with lore and facts due to reading a bad summary.

Your best bet is books and the game. Obscure texts are debatable, but they don't conflict with lore, as of now (but I HIGHLY suggest you don't read them till you have some foundation).

Also, stick around and participate in this place. Ask as many questions as you like.

I'd definitely say in-game books are a good place to start, there's a wide variety of books in the series and many can give good looks at lore. Just remember that the books are written from the perspectives of people in the setting, and there are both fiction and non-fiction books, much like in real life. Obviously, all books are fictional in the sense that the things described in them are not part of our real world, but what I mean to say is that they're fictional in the context of the setting, so even in the Elder Scrolls world, what they say may not be all true, and even non-fiction books may not be completely accurate because they contain misinformation on the writers' part, deliberate or otherwise, therefore, not everything you read in books in the game is necessarily completely accurate, in some cases, multiple accounts may be given on a subject and it's kept ambiguous which one is true. This is not to say that you shouldn't believe anything you read in books, of course, it just means that not everything you see is necessarily objective fact in the lore. And if there's anything you don't understand, feel free to ask here, after all, questions about the Elder Scrolls lore is one of the purposes of the lore forum. Just be warned that sometimes, posters here may write in terms that could be confusing to someone who isn't well versed in the lore, and depending on how much official information there is on the subject you ask about, you may end up getting a fair amount of speculation, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, you just have to maintain the distinction between official canon and fan speculation, and don't confuse the latter for the former.

The other nice thing about just stumbling onto books in game is that they are usually the most straightforward and/or basic.

I would also suggest varieties of faith. It will give you a basic idea of how all the different gods are related. I would also caution against reading through some of the more complicated topics in the forum. If you don't have a solid base to follow the topics things can get really really confusing in the same way that the obscure texts mentioned above can.

I'm looking to dig deep into the Lore myself, so I want to thank everyone for posting the resources and being very helpful. I'm going to start with the "How To Become A Lore Buff" thread. Wish me luck!

Read http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23596.Tales_Before_Tolkien or similar books first, should help out in terms of how a fantasy world is generally structured - i.e. races, loose vs tight pantheon, mystery cults, socio political conflict etc..

Then go the links above and it will be much easier to understand TES

play all the games starting with Arena in order of their release - that will make the contents more real for you

so read all the books you can find

accept every book you find in-game as being a real representation of something someone in-game wanted to publish


be aware that every race has it's own view/spin on what appear to be similar but different events and stuff

and so be aware that each succeeding release updates your world-view according to the experiences and preferences of the specific race and Province that it focuses on


never assume that mumbo-jumbo-like texts are superficial - dianetics is apparently kid's play compared to The Sermons of Vivec for example

post here and enjoy it all

best of luck

be ready to spend a long time in a Lore Forum Retirement Home for Brain-Burnt Addicts :foodndrink:

While I agree that having context is helpful when studying lore, it is by no means a necessity. And even then I wouldn't recommend books on fantasy, simply because they are going to influence your view of TES and make you inclined to read things a certain (not necessarily correct) way. I would recommend reading things about real world philosophy, religion, literary criticism, and history instead. In that department, I'm a huge fan of Joseph Campbell.

Hermeticism, Gnosticism, and maybe Kabbalah are probably the most relevant real-world schools of thought.

I was just reading Campbell's "The Power of Myth".
There are a lot of interesting things in it relating to TES.
For instance, he says at one point "Nine is the number of the descent of Divine power into the world", which made me laugh out loud, considering the Nine Divines.
More significantly, he discusses the mythological concept of the Eagle and the Snake, a theme recurrent throughout all of humanity's myths and stories.
Brings Lorkhan to mind.
Alduin eating the world, and Lorkhan creating it.

I think the two are certainly embodiments of that mythical pair.

I thought to suggest Campbell in reply to Telvanni Arch-Magister's post, but decided against it, for the reason Lady N brings up.
But since the subject is broached, anyone with an academic interest in it should read both Campbell and the basics of mytheopic thought, for example, The Intellectual Adventure of Ancient Man: An Essay of Speculative Thought in the Ancient Near East. It's good to understand that nature of mytheopic thought in order to better grasp the spirit and contradictions of the world of TES.
I certainly don't think anyone should read these things before immersing themselves in TES lore, though. Take it for what it is, then explore further if you're inclined. Don't misunderstand it through an academic lens.

I have not read Campbell extensively, if at all, since he largely ruminates on theories such as the Mythos exposed by Aristotle or Jung's sub-conscious world-understanding. I would also be careful about applying real-world theories to a diegetic world, one which is essentially a 'consomme' of what we are familiar with (and not) but still lifeless once turned off. Bearing that in mind I would also disregard writing which has been created outside of the game, apart from that of actual player's experiences (i.e. fan-fiction). Lastly, "Sophie's world" is still a good book if reading something like the 'Edda' or Norse mythology is too demanding.

That all goes beyond the point of the post. I suggested reading about fantasy worlds since it might be the easiest way of understanding: most of the borrowed elements in these immediate worlds remain the same throughout (whether Germanic, generally European or future-projected). I also recommend reading about Tolkien's "sub-creation" and the famous novel named "The Well at the end of the world."

EDIT: Aristotle not Plato duh

Personally, I think he is more accessible than both. More myth, less psychoanolysis. Though I've read more of him than I have of either of them.

The important part to take away from all those things is not so much that X has done like Y in Z because that won't help. Rather it helps to realise the idea exists and lets you recognise it when you see it.

For example the Campbell thread about the Prince and the Diamond. It was new too me. It made me realise that the end of Oblivion was about Martins sacrifice. I knew he had sacrificed himself but I didn't realise that was the point.

Knowing this I can make a proper argument what I disliked about the ending. It happened to fast, making Martins sacrifice a rather absurd gesture. But enough about that.

Re the OP: I while back, I recall someone asking whether the lore buffs couldn't establish some kind of comprehensive index or wiki for lore topics. I don't think anything came of it, but I really think this would be an important contribution. TIL is a great resource, but even those of us who know the sources reasonably well can have trouble finding everything that is pertinant to a given topic- simply pointing complete novices in the general direction of TIL seems a bit cruel. I also think it would improve the rigour of arguments on this forum if everyone knew exactly which sources were relevant. Does anyone know how we could go about creating such a thing?

Re Campbell et al.- well, that is some kind of epic issue. Personally, I think drawing on RL theories to explain TES myth is a bit Boring And Therefore Wrong- especially if it is the flogged-to-death 'Monomyth/Hero's Journey'. Also, Campbell's Monomyth is not Nirn's- TES myth is the sum of its craziness, written by many, and many of the good bits, IMO, seem as much like an argument with Tolkien and pulp fantasy as mythical exegeses or references to RL philosophies- though of course they can be all of the above!- which means that anyone who is familiar with fantasy fiction ought to be able to get something out of TES lore. Also, if we do want to get all 'meta': TES myth might contain reference to given myths or theories, but it is contemporary fiction. That means that, unless you subcribe to some extreme Jungian or Campbellian view of myth, in which it is all basically the same thing, reading about RL mythologies might help you understand the references TES lore contains, but won't magically unlock any secret 'real' meaning behind the lore. I agree with what Prowler wrote above: understanding the references can be useful, but they do not contain the answers.

Besides in-game texts, I would recommend that people who are interested in the lore read broadly, preferably focussing on the myths themselves rather than any particular theory. Get a feel for different mythologies and make up your own mind as to their relevence. Honestly, though, I think you could do worse than accept TES lore on its own terms.

How would such a thing look/work, though? The Lorebuff guide was my best attempt to come up with a general list of relevant texts, but besides the biggies there are tons of smaller sources, which may seem irrelevant until you need to use them. On the other hand, listing everything with any connection to a particular topic (say Daedra) doesn't get you much that a basic search can't get. How do you determine if something is worth indexing, or do you list it all (which once again becomes an overload of information and therefore useless). My recommendations are always the Pocket Guides, the Lore Buff guide, and the search engine for branching out. We're working on a comprehensive tag-based sorting thing at TIL, but thats still in the http://imperial-library.info/tags.



As I said elsewhere, the whole point of the Monomyth is to apply to everything. They are unavoidable tropes of storytelling rather than something specific to Earth. And yea, what Proweler said. Seeing the Nerevarine as a perfect Jungian hero isn't going to explain TES lore, but it might enrich the story.

Sorry, I hadn't noticed the new tags- forgive my ignorance. They'll certainly help a lot. I suppose I was thinking of something similar to the Lorebuff guide, listing first the sources that are directly concerned with a topic, and then others which are relevant. Tags are a pretty good solution to the second part, though. I'd suggest (or write) some kind of potted history/ introductory summary containing references to primary sources, but that could lead to problems... :flamethrower:

Regarding the Monomyth- I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I get that the Monomyth is _supposed_ to be something universal- and I've always found comparative mythology fascinating- but I'm not convinced. There's a lot in myth and literature that is very specific to the culture that creates it, and a lot of weirdness that makes no sense at all, to us. I'm also a litttle skeptical of any argument that attempts to 'explain' myth as if it is some kind of unitary entity which can be understood. That applies not only to Campbell and Jung, but Dumezil and Levi-Strauss and a whole bunch of crazies whose names I've forgotten (Madame Blavatsky, anyone?). It's not that I don't think this kind of work has any value, but I prefer to take the conclusions with a grain of salt.

A lot of this probably comes down to how one likes to read a story. Personally, I'm a strong believer that the 'secondary world' or 'sub-creation' or what-have-you of fantasy ought to be given a chance to explain itself in its own terms before I jump in with a theory. I find the Nerevarine-Who-Destroyed-These-Weird-Sort-of-Gods-Who-Used-the-Power-of-a-Sort-of-Dead-God's-Heart (Which is Another Story)-by-Destroying-Their-Nemesis-Whose-Power-Was-Their-Own much more interesting than the Nerevarine-Who-Is-a-Facet-of-the-Monomyth. Perhaps it's a matter of taste.