Just a little something I've been pondering on for quite some time.

What do the Aldmer look like?

From what I've learned, the Altmer have selectivly bred to resemble them.

But, when we look at it, we have five elven races (ignoring magically changed races): Altmer, Bosmer, Dwemer, Falmer and Maomer.

I think the appearance of the Falmer and Maomer, we can put down to evolution? Falmer are a light blue tone to blend in. Maomer have evolved to live aquatically.

That means we have three races; Altmer, Bosmer and Dwemer. We know that Bosmer and Dwemer resemble more a typical elf. They have a light skin tone, similar to a human. And, from what I can tell, they're all unrelated (or at least, distant). This leads me to believe that all three started as this (Aldmer), and the Dwemer and Bosmer left themselves as they were, and the Altmer changed themselves to look more "superior" with a golden complextion, and a large stature.

I mean, Altmer aren't exactly the most Moralistic race out there, for all we know, what they're saying could just be ramblings to make themselves look good.

Sorry if any of this seems like ramblings itself.

Anyhoo, tell me what you think.

Mankar Cameron was supposedly of aldmer descent, and although he was a bosmer (from his moms) he looked altmer...

If that helps any.

We don't know the color of the Falmer (their relationship to the Reiklings has not been proven, and even if the Reiklings are Falmer descendants their skin color could have changed alongside everything else) or the Dwemer (only specimen is suffering from corpus). The Bosmer are said to have intermingled with mannish stalk. We do however know that Altmer-looking elves (Altmer, Direnni, Chimer, Ayleid) are common and found all over the place (including in the Bosmer population - see Camoran). As such, I would say that the Altmer are pretty close to the original look of the Aldmer, though some features were probably exaggerated .


Every elf is of Aldmer descent.

The Chimer were a sect of Aldmer, and they were said to have golden skin, just as the Altmer still do.

I'd say the altmer are the closest people to look like the aldmer. I'd also like to give a special mention to Aleyid statues found in the Thieves Guild final quest.

I think he meant Aleyid descent.

Yes, that's what I meant. My mistake... ayleid does not equal aldmer, the ayleid are also descendants.

I'd have to say they proabably look like high elves, maybe slightly more "perfected". I don't really know what i mean by that, but i would assume that since the altmer are trying to look like them, they must look slightly different. Maybe the aldmer were taller, tanner, and more athletic looking.

I'm pretty sure the Direnni are a faction of Altmer.

Chimer and Altmer are the same race.

The Aylieds are apparently "not as dark as a Dunmer, but not as pale as the Altmer", suggests there was some kind of gradual change.
(2920, The Last Year of the First Era )

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac285/Rellac/MerTimeline.png

This is what I'm thinking the timeline of the Mer would be. Left out the Falmer and Maormer. Not enough info.

Anyhoo, there is the Aldmer. Dwemer and Bosmer go to live in thier seperate cultures. Still practically the same physically.

Orcs become cursed, and turn out how they are.

The Aylieds go off to selectivly breed. They start to get a darker tone.

The Aylieds then carry on selectivly breeding to eventually become the Altmer.




My bad. I was actually thinking of the ice warriors in (Reguard?)

Though I believe the Dwemer had a lighter skin tone. Look at ghosts. Pretty sure they seem to be a lighter tone. It's like differenctiating between skin tones on black and white tv.


Actually, the Chimer and Altmer are the same race. Wasn't all that long ago the Chimer were made Dunmer, IIRC.



I'm sorry, but it does seem to me that the standard Aldmer would have had a more typical elven skin tone.

Researched a tad and changed my previous post.

Not trolling or flaming, just seems an interesting topic of discussion.

Ayleids would be more accurately described as cousins, or siblings of the altmer, rather than ancestors. Their not called Heartland High Elves for nothing. And remember, the altmer hail from the summerset isles while the Ayleids were centered in Cyrodiil. One did not produce the other, they coexisted.

There is absolutely no reason to assume that the bosmer and the Dwemer are one and the same. (Keep in mind Dwemer ghosts are hunched over, not standing perfectly erect like in-game bosmer) Notably, there is no evidence to suggest that the Dwemer had women who were naturally and predominantly taller than men, which is a defining trait of Bosmer physiology. We cannot conclude they are the same race.
edit: the bosmer also don't demonstrate the calling, one of the Dwemer's purported abilities.

Do you have a source to say that they coexisted? I always assumed they bred out..

And I know they're not the same, but Dwemer and Bosmer are definatly similar.

Dwemer and Bosmer have nothing in common.

As for the ayleids, the pocket guide confirms that the ayleids descend from Aldmer who went to Mainland Tamriel, while the altmer descend from aldmer who stayed on the summerset isles.

Chimer, Direnni, and Ayleid are all descendants of the Aldmer, and yet they are close enough to Altmer to be called the same race. Thats essentially my point - with the exception of Bosmer (god intervention) and Maomer, all elves that we know of look like Altmer. There are significant cultural differences, but golden-ish skintone and height seems to be shared by most.

There is no basis to Dwemer and Bosmer being the same. In terms of Ayleids, the one in 2920 is a wild elf - one long removed from the proper Ayleid civilization.

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3690/aldmerdiagram.jpg (excuse the handwritting).

I assume you drew that during one of your classes?

It's good.

Nah, its just easier and faster for me to draw it out rather than doing it in Photoshop. I'll eventually do a nice racial genealogy diagram, but not right now.

Hmm.. It seems debating lore with Lady Nerevar truely is wrong. :tongue:

Anyhoo, this does seem to make sense, however.

Do you believe that the Aldmer and Altmer do look alike? I wouldn't put it past the Altmer to create thier own "superior" physiology and say that it's the right one. At least to a degree.

Also, the Direnni, Altmer and Chimer aren't merely VERY similar. They are the exact same race.

Direnni and Chimer were a faction of Altmer. It's just like House Hlaalu/Redoran/Telvanni of the Dunmer.

The Direnni definitely aren't Altmer, since they've been up there in Highrock since the convention.

This all ties into the notion of "race" in Tamriel. Since all men and mer can interbreed, they are technically one biological race with many breeds. What you consider a breed/race depends as much on culture as it does on biology. The 1st era Ayleids, who are biologically Altmer, are consider their own race, as are the Chimer. If I had to draw a real-world parallel I would compare it to the various 'ethnicities' of Europeans, many of whom look identical and yet are classed as separate due to culture.

Yes, I would say that the Aldmer looked different from the Altmer. The Altmer goal is to look like the Aldmer, which implies that they aren't quite there yet. I suppose the Aldmer could have been more similar to men than we realize, but thats rather boring (imo) compared to the Altmer.

Personally I'm interested in the Falmer.
They're more mysterious than the Dwemer, as far as general information.
Their distinction from other merish races, yet lack of apparent history or culture...or survivors.


Hopefully we'll learn more of their existence/destruction in Skyrim.

fix'd

Aren't Ayleids supposed to be darker in skin tone to the Altmer?

No, they're nowhere near that different. They have the same language, exact same appreance, same ancestors and the same culture, other than the few views that seperated them.

They would be more like the different cities of England. They think they're completely different, and try to act so, but we're all the exact same, really. (If you're offended - please, go away. I'm English.)

The Wild Elves, yes. The Heartland High Elves, no.


Except they are and they don't. Culturally, the Chimer were as far away from the Altmer as you could get, thats the whole reason they left for Morrowing. The Ayleids, while closer to their island brethren, also developed their own culture. We know that there are several Ehlnofex dialects, and it doesn't take a linguist to see how different Ayleid is from Dunmer is from high Ehlnofex. Their appearance remained identical at first and later branched, with the Chimer becoming Dunmer, the Ayleids becoming wild, and the Altmer selectively breeding towards their goal. Their ancestors don't matter, since every elf can be traced to the same.

To quote the 3rd PGE: