Towers. : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Tue May 10, 2011 9:45 pm

Okay, one thing which completely escapes me is what the towers are for. By "towers" I mean White-Gold Tower, Red Mountain etc.

In the Infernal City it said something about them "holding the world up" what does this mean? Does it have something to do with Oblivion?

» Tue May 10, 2011 9:27 pm

I assume you've played Oblivion? Basically the main quest of Oblivion was the result of failling towers. One of the important functions of the towers is to keep Mundus and oblivion seperated.

» Tue May 10, 2011 3:19 pm

What are the Towers?

They are magical and physical echoes of the Ur-Tower, Ada-mantia. Ada-mantia was the first spike of unassailable reality in the Dawn, otherwise called the Zero Stone. The powers at Ada-mantia were able to determine through this Stone the spread of creation and their parts in it.

The powers also created Red Tower and the First Stone. This allowed the Mundus to exist without the full presence of the divine. In this way, the powers of Ada-mantia granted the Mundus a special kind of divinity, which is called NIRN, the consequence of variable fate.

After these two acts, which is commonly called the Convention, the gods left the earth.

As they were the most powerful of lesser spirits in the ages after the Convention and eager to emulate what they saw, the Aldmer began construction of their own towers. That they built more than one shows you that they were not of one mind.

The Aldmer began to split along cultural lines, on how best to spread creation and their parts in it. Each Tower that was built exemplified a separate accordance.

This sundering of purpose is the myth of the "destruction of Aldmeris." Outside of the Dawn, and even then only in the dreamtime of its landscape, there was never a terrestrial homeland of the Elves. "Old Ehlnofey" is a magical ideal of mixed memories of the Dawn.

Do not believe the written histories.

All mortal life started on the starry heart of Dawn's beauty, Tamriel.

» Wed May 11, 2011 3:47 am

Check out the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept and http://www.imperial-library.info/content/vehks-teaching.

» Tue May 10, 2011 7:01 pm

Thanks.

» Tue May 10, 2011 5:29 pm

I still don't understand why the Crystal tower would 'hold the world up', if it is the altmer's desire to return to the et'ada. Am I missing something?

» Tue May 10, 2011 6:49 pm

I still don't understand why the Crystal tower would 'hold the world up', if it is the altmer's desire to return to the et'ada. Am I missing something?

It doesn't. Crystal tower wasn't a part of Mankar's plot.

The powers also created Red Tower and the First Stone. This allowed the Mundus to exist without the full presence of the divine. In this way, the powers of Ada-mantia granted the Mundus a special kind of divinity, which is called NIRN, the consequence of variable fate.

After these two acts, which is commonly called the Convention, the gods left the earth.

Red Mountain prevented the Oblivion invasion, so the Mythic Dawn deactivated it. That was Morrowind's plot. The masters of White Gold actually sat on a door to Oblivion, sealed by the barriers of Red Mountain.

White-Gold Tower is a conduit of creatia, aad sembia sembio, built to bring about a reversal of the congealing spiritual bleed caused by the Convention. In other words, it was a focus point for (re-)reaching the divine.

White-Gold Tower was made by the Ayleids, the Heartland High Elves that would have none to do with their isle-kind. Where the Altmer sought to focus on dracochrysalis, or keeping elder magic bound before it could change into something lesser (and act which ironically required Aetherial surplus), the Ayleids harvested castaway creatia from Oblivion by entering a pact with the masters of the Void, the Princes of Misrule.

White Gold's design is unique, because it harvests creatia from Oblivion. Mankar took the Amulet to open that door for Dagon, who broke the barriers once inside. As the Red Mountain barriers were now broken, Martin mantled Akatosh and sacrificed his divinity, for the new barriers. Crystal Tower had nothing to do with Oblivion's plot.

The Ayleids were not content, until they ate creatia from the table of the Daedra.

» Tue May 10, 2011 11:41 pm

I'm not actually talking about the plots of morrowind or oblivion... as you said they don't have anything to do with the Crystal tower.

If:
- the towers are built to the will of their builders,
- Crystal tower was built by the altmer,
- the altmer wish to return to the et'ada...

Shouldn't Crystal tower actually be working counter to all the other towers?

» Wed May 11, 2011 5:20 am

Shouldn't Crystal tower actually be working counter to all the other towers?

Don't quote me, but I believe that this is the case.

» Wed May 11, 2011 7:04 am

I'm not actually talking about the plots of morrowind or oblivion... as you said they don't have anything to do with the Crystal tower.

And as I said, only Red Mountain held the barriers, not Adamantine, and not its imagoes. Adamant and its copies are attempts at CHIM.

Like all of the polydox constructs of the earliest Aldmer-- whatever their abnegaurbic creed-- White-Gold Tower is a conduit of creatia, aad sembia sembio, built to bring about a reversal of the congealing spiritual bleed caused by the Convention. In other words, it was a focus point for (re-)reaching the divine.

Shouldn't Crystal tower actually be working counter to all the other towers?

To kill Man is to reach Heaven, from where we came before the Doom Drum's iniquity. When we accomplish this, we can escape the mockery and long shame of the Material Prison.

To achieve this goal, we must:

1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.

2) Remove Man not just from the world, but from the Pattern of Possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.

3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once traveled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit.

That's the mind of Crystal Law's architects. Maybe their method subverts the others.

» Wed May 11, 2011 7:25 am

If:
- the towers are built to the will of their builders,
- Crystal tower was built by the altmer,
- the altmer wish to return to the et'ada...

Shouldn't Crystal tower actually be working counter to all the other towers?

The Ur-Tower was built by the gods to stop the hemorrhage of the potential energy of Anu, ala:

"...built to bring about a reversal of the congealing spiritual bleed caused by the Convention..." and
"...the Altmer sought to focus on... keeping elder magic bound before it could change into something lesser..."

This was, eventually, the point of all the Towers. The last thing that the Altmer of Crystal Tower want is a gaping, Padomaic hole to Oblivion, which would drain them completely, leaving no chance of ever getting back to the divine. Basically, the Altmer faction believes in divinity through 1. conservation and 2. purification. The Ayleid faction also is focused on conservation, but is willing to make some compromises of questionable safety to collect extra energy from Oblivion. Lorkhan wants the Mundus to remain intact long enough so that people can, through the intermixture of Anu and Padomay dialectics, find their way to CHIM. But all of these factions want the towers operational, because the alternative is an immediate 'energy meltdown.'

» Wed May 11, 2011 6:06 am

wow... thanks, that was an amazing concise explanation!

so then, do we know what all the towers' individual functions are and who built them? the throat of the world for instance?

» Wed May 11, 2011 2:05 am

wow... thanks, that was an amazing concise explanation!

so then, do we know what all the towers' individual functions are and who built them? the throat of the world for instance?

I don't think anyone "built" the mountain/tower. IIRC, it became a tower by the faith and practices of those around it. I see the notion of mortal beliefs shaping reality/Mundus in the forums a lot, and I think this is the case. The summit of the mountain has some sort of temple on it that only exists partly within the Mundus realm.

Another question:

1) Each tower is supposed to have a stone right? What stone does Skyrim's tower have?

» Tue May 10, 2011 9:03 pm

so then, do we know what all the towers' individual functions are and who built them? the throat of the world for instance?

You should read http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept-letter-5 and the others. All towers are attempts at CHIM.

I don't think anyone "built" the mountain/tower. IIRC, it became a tower by the faith and practices of those around it. I see the notion of mortal beliefs shaping reality/Mundus in the forums a lot, and I think this is the case.

I'm not a fan of that interpretation, myself. Nothings so wild about an artificial mountain. I mean, Vivec's got a p3nis that rockets him through transdimensional holes in your brain.

The summit of the mountain has some sort of temple on it that only exists partly within the Mundus realm.

This much is speculation, but given Hrothgar's natural appearance, I believe the Falmer built it from raw creatia. Specifically, the apex of Hrothgar may be constructed from the Leaper's, hidden creatia, which explains how Hrothgar stays above Alduin's eating.

What stone does Skyrim's tower have?

My conclusion's with Dovahkiin, or his head, to complement 'Snow Throat.' He's a receiver-transmitter of the dragons' souls, which the Amulet was before him.

» Tue May 10, 2011 10:18 pm

Towers are meant to act as what the people have as the closest bridge to the heavens.

» Tue May 10, 2011 6:20 pm

You should read http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept-letter-5 and the others. All towers are attempts at CHIM.

Not quite. Chim describes the state in which one returns to the original flux before Auri-el came about. The Altmer however were looking to preserve the stasis that came after.

It'd be more accurate to say that the towers were built for (re-)reaching the divine.

---

As for High Hrothgar. If I remember correctly the Nords believe to have been created when Kyne breathed on High Hrothgar. Perhaps High Hrothgar only gained it's size at that time. It would explain why the Nords are all so pale.

» Wed May 11, 2011 12:23 am

Chim describes the state in which one returns to the original flux before Auri-el came about. The Altmer however were looking to preserve the stasis that came after.

Where does destroying Lorkhan fit into their plan for crystallizing the stasis of Auriel? Isn't time without limit, the original flux?

» Tue May 10, 2011 9:23 pm

Where does destroying Lorkhan fit into their plan for crystallizing the stasis of Auriel? Isn't time without limit, the original flux?

The Altmeri myth describes three stages.

1. Before Auri-El. Flux.
2. After Auri-El. Not Flux. Not in the good neighbourhood of Aetherius anyway, just unbounded potential.
3. After Convention. A little patch of Flux and we're stuck in the middle of it!

Hence The Altmer sought to focus on dracochrysalis, or keeping elder magic bound before it could change into something lesser

Destroying Lorkhan? Is that from the Altmeri comentary on Talos?

» Tue May 10, 2011 7:19 pm

The Altmeri myth describes three stages.

1. Before Auri-El. Flux.
2. After Auri-El. Not Flux. Not in the good neighbourhood of Aetherius anyway, just unbounded potential.
3. After Convention. A little patch of Flux and we're stuck in the middle of it!

Hence The Altmer sought to focus on dracochrysalis, or keeping elder magic bound before it could change into something lesser

The devil's in the details. I need to ask more questions.

Destroying Lorkhan? Is that from the Altmeri comentary on Talos?

Yep, the 'unbinding the Dragon' part. Auriel's bound to the Material Prison, Lorkhan's body.

» Tue May 10, 2011 6:25 pm

Red Mountain prevented the Oblivion invasion, so the Mythic Dawn deactivated it. That was Morrowind's plot. The masters of White Gold actually sat on a door to Oblivion, sealed by the barriers of Red Mountain.

So,at the time when the Oblivion Crisis takes place, White Gold Tower was not deactivated, quite the opposite actually.Without the Heart of Lorhkan, the barriers were destroyed - there you go, Camoran.
The Dragonfires were introduced by Reman from what I know, so they were pretty much irrelevant and just a ritual to crown the new Emperor.The Akaviri guy reigned over the Empire for a long time and Dagon still didn't invade (the Mournhold destruction is a whole other story, he was summoned by a witch).Akatosh made a covenant with Alessia, but why? As long as the heart of Lorkhan was there, White Gold wouldn't become a 'gate' to Oblivion. Or was it Pelinal the Shezarrine (Lorkhan) who chose to bound Akatosh to the Amulet? This is turning into a theory so I better shut up.