So the Game Informer Skyrim hub says that lotsa tweaking has been done on combat to make it more "real", "gritty" etc. Fair enough, but has anything been done to fix Oblivion's biggest combat fault which was trying to fight multiple enemies simultaneously? Was there anything more stupid than your screen cluttered with a bunch of bandits clobbering away and you're unable to do anything because you're stuck in a continuous stagger? I'm kinda hoping to see some melee techniques to help deal to groups of enemies here. Fighting *one* enemy was never really the issue with TES combat.

You pose an interesting point. Fighting multiple enemies in any BGS game has been less than glamorous up to this point. A lot will definitely depend on what weapon the player is using this time around. Just from the trailer alone, we see the use of AOEs with the mage engulfing the entire tomb in flames. I think in general just re-tweaking the AI and how they react to players would probably fix a lot of the issues that were present in Oblivion and Morrowind as well.

Ummm.... no offense meant, but if you found yourself "unable to do anything because you're stuck in a continuous stagger" because you were facing multiple enemies, that's your own fault - not Beth's. The problem isn't in the game - in old customer support terms, the problem exists between keyboard and chair.

1) Avoid facing multiple enemies. Stay in the shadows and/or down side passages and try to draw them off one at a time.
2) If facing multiple enemies, keep moving and keep turning. Try to get them to get in each other's way and don't let them flank you. Make use of narrow tunnels, rocks, ledges, and so on. Try to focus on opponents one at a time, so you can kill one rather than simply wounding more than one. And keep moving.

Beth doesn't need to deal with that "problem" - the player does.

Lol. Have you ever been in a real-life fight where you were outnumbered? Unless you outmanoeuvre your opponents or use terrain features to cut down their approach angles, this is exactly what happens - you get beaten like a baby seal.

I'm not saying an experienced fighter can't deal with being outnumbered, but it does require constant footwork, the ability to take down (incapacitate) foes with one well placed shot, and a lot of stamina.

Basically, this.

I think every fight in the game should have real consequences and there should be a feeling of "It's either me or them". Choosing to fight several enemies at once should mean you choose to do so from a distance with spells/bow, or you plan on using your surroundings to face each enemy on your own terms.

The experienced fighter will do just that, find a corner to reduce number of opponent able to attack at one time, laterally move so only few opponents can strike at the same time, and try to stay at the edge of the line.
And ultimately flee if unable.
Thats what Musashi did.
Thats what i heard people holding multiple ennemies did (up to 7 to1 confirmed by Police occurence, 7 got arrested on the spot 4 down and 2 still more or les fighting and one trying to flee from the cops) he holded on a corner where only 1 and a half could effectivaly attack him and downed them one after the other. Even receiving punching and kicking himself 7 vs one is impressive.
I also heard of 2 vs 11 cops...7 on the street floor until they got subverted and beaten almost to hell.

So to the OP learn the basic of fighting. Use your brain. Brainless fighters are downed fighters.

In the Draugr shot (with the two-handed spell in first person) the enemies are nicely spaced out and aren't all running straight towards you at the same time.

I'm optimisitc that it will be fun.

The bigger problem then being staggered a lot (which never happened to me really) was that you could only hit one person at a time. Sure AoE spells fix that issue but what about the warrior swinging a battle axe like a madman? Would there really be no collateral damage? One more problem is that enemies couldn't hurt each other so one could basically tank while another just hit through him. It would be nice to see enemies hurt each other by mistake, or at least be aware of each other.

i think the question is : A talented melee warrior (100 lv one handed weapon , 100 lv block with several perks for both or similar) could beat a least 3 enemies with a little of solvency?
I am not talking about like assassin's creed when only pressing two buttons you can literally kill 10 guys, but it will be great a better performance of this kind fights.

The biggest problem with this for me is the inability for NPCs to really 'miss'. I'm not sure how well it went in Oblivion, but in Morrowind it was just annoying. You couldn't dodge to the side because NPCs will always be facing you. No matter what, they turn at the same time you move, which is just annoying because that doesn't really happen. Swings are immediate (meaning as soon as they release the button, the attack happens, regardless of whether the weapon reaches you), and they will never miss your hitbox. Worse yet, they combine the two things and people can literally turn around mid swing and hit you. You can't just turn around while you're swinging a giant hammer or a two handed sword.

I'm hoping that when they say things like that we'll be able to 'feel' the difference between weapons they're addressing these kinds of problems. I get really annoyed in games which feature heavy combat, especially melee, and the NPCs are given basically precognitive levels of reaction speed.

Cause an orc warrior is really going to stay in the shadows and hide like a puss. The dude is right, it needs work. Hopefully thats one of the things they fixed. Good subject

OK, first let me say few stuff to these people who say that it's more realistic as it's been up to now.
Yes, it is, but it's pain and way less fun.
Also, current TES ''realistic'' fight is fail because you can't do lot of stuff and moves you would do in actual real life fight.
Not to mention that I find it simply silly that 5 bandits with daggers beat the crap out of me while I wield a huge axe and can't swing it around to bash them all at once.
Current TES battle system only has bad parts of real life fights and that's why it isn't actually realistic and it svcks big time.
How can you be an all powerful dragonborn if you can't take few bandits at once without big problem? >.>
What I like in Fable series (one of the rare things they did better) way more than I like in TES is that you can take on lots of enemies at once witch is FUN and still doesn't break any of the immersion or anything.
It gave me feel of an actual power and made me enjoy fights.
Stop being too realistic people since too much realism can screw up the game!
TES should do something about fights.
One on one was OK in previous games, but if you end up fighting more enemies than once, you would ether have to backpedal and hit them like some sissy or would have your ass handed to you.

If the opponents the orc is facing are tame enough in comparison to the PC to be cut down, then no, it's not going to crouch in the shadows.
But if the orc is going up against multiple enemies that are supposed to be a challenge one on one, then yeah, if that orc warrior wants to not put itself in a stupid situation, it'll play coy and crouch in the shadows for a bit.






Way less fun is entirely subjective. I find being able to charge into a room with several at-level enemies and slaughter them all to be boring, rather than tactically considering the situation to handle them one at a time. Or redesigning a character to handle with massive damage, such as a healer-warrior combo.


It's not realism that's at stake, it's the interplay of believability, entertainment, and handling how the theme of combat feels. The player-to-enemies ratio of Assassins Creed, for instance, gives off an entirely different feel than what Morrowind or Oblivion's largely single-combatant combat does.


The individual relations of the mechanics might need tweaking, but the system itself is believable:
Perhaps they were more skilled with their daggers than you were with your armor.
Perhaps your skill with that huge axe simply isn't up to par with their dodging ability.


Easily, because Dragonborn does not connotate all-powerful by necessity. Tiber Septim was Dragonborn, but he still had to trick the Bretons and win the aid of the Nords at the battle of Sancre Tor. Uriel Septim was a Dragonborn, yet he still got cut down by assassins in the sewers. You get the idea. Dragonborn is a nature, not an immediate skillset.


See fun-comment above.
Further, in ES, the only time when multiple-combatant fights get out of hand are times when the player overjudges their combat effectiveness against whichever scenario they throw themselves against. If I'm level 15 or 20 in Morrowind and I decide to go against a group of people, chances are they're low enough of a level for me to handle them at once just fine. If they're not, then that's my problem for misjudging.


The difference is in automatically having that power through having little to no issues in average multi-combatant fights, versus earning the skills necessary to maybe take some enemy clusters, yet not all enemy clusters.

Part of the problem with facing multiple opponents in that there was no way to effectively deal damage to several opponents at once. Even an inexperienced warrior could flail like a drowning cat and not be fun to get close to. Really, a better way of defending yourself from multiple attacks would be in order. How about a dynamic timed parry system that requires some skill on the part of the user. Difficulty settings could adjust the timing and pace of swordplay (as a general term) for enjoyment of people of all skill levels. I think a dedicated warrior should have some perks to deal damage to several foes at once/ defend from several. I'm all for playing ale of play character that picks his battles, but I don't think forcing that style of play as the only way to survive is a good think. Especially since the trailer makes it look that mage characters can really grow to be effective at fighting several at once.

in oblivion i remember most of the enemies being way too fast so they would almost always get around you. i think they just need to reduce the speed of the monsters.