So after playing Demon's Souls I'm getting tired of the crazy rolling in it, but at the same time I feel like Oblivion lacked tactical movement because of the fast backwards walking. Now that walking backwards has been confirmed to be slower, would you like to see the ability to take a fast step back or even roll backwards/sideways to dodge enemy attacks? It could improve the dual-wielding chances of survival if they cannot block, but instead dodge out of the way at the cost of heavy stamina consumption. What's your thoughts about this?

I think you should read info on the game before using this forum. In another thread you posted something completely unnecessary given the info thats already released. So please, do like everybody else and read articles and info before misusing bandwidth.

Thanks.

Have they actually said anything about backsteps/dodging? I've read quite a few articles and not found any info 'bout it. Anyway, it's all our own opinions we brain storm about here, talking about a game series we all love while waiting for it to come out. If we were not to say anything that is confirmed and something that we know nothing about, nothing would be posted in the Skyrim section. :/

Rolling in the Oblivion/Demon's sould sense is stupid and you just plain wouldn't do it in a fight.

When I first saw 'rolling' I imagined rolling in the boxing sense, in which you take a step off to the side and duck under the punch. THIS is more realistic for combat.
Backstep and Sidestepping is the minimum for a decent combat system imo. skilled fighters don't tend to stand there and duke it out most of the time, they create angles and attack.

..I'd like to see an ability to take afast step in any direction as part of the evasion technique. It's just as important to be able to side/backstep as it is to be able to take a fast step forward and attack.

I think YOU should do like everybody else (or atleast like me) and not complain that someone (like me, again) doesn't wanna buy some damn magazine.

Thanks.
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I haven't played demons soul but I definetly want dodging, rolling, backstabbing, etc...
but I'd really like to be able to go down on the ground, to avoid a hit without leaving your position...

While they havent said anything about dodging, they have said you cant run backwards, and the info released about combat sort of lets you get a bit of feel of how its gonna play out. And nowhere in that info would make anyone infer that sidestepping and rolling on the ground is in any way part of it. Dont think it would be necessary either, since the pace of combat does not read like it will be uber fast that you need to roll around. And sidestepping would make it feel like a fighting game (while Demons Souls is not a fighting game, its kind of an arcade type of game in its mechanics, which was intentional)

I don t know about you people but i was quite able to sidestep in Oblivion, sometime it failed because i was too slow or sidestepped too early, but ir was my mistake, backpedalling was harder, it all depended of which weapon the ennemy had.

I don tknow what rolling your talking about ? Chinese spring rolls or what.

No pathetic tumble, or ballet move or fancy ridiculous moves in combat please, this is a combat not the nutcrack ballet performed by the royal academy of London. Nor fancy Vale Tudo Jiu Jitsu tailored championship, where it end up being a fight with more sixual positions than the Kama Sutra.

Rolls and little sidesteps are essentially for dynamic combat, ESPECIALLY since we're going to be fighting 30 feet tall firebreathing lizards.

It really gets you into the immersive flow and joy of combat, ducking under a blow, countering with a satisfying roar of pain and spurt of blood...that is infinitely more exciting than the mmo style of standing in front of each other autoattacking.

Imo, Oblivion was the best game so far to blend Action and Rpg seamlessly, without sacrificing too much of either. Skyrim looks like it's gotten a boost to both, rather than taking away from one to boost the other.


And this would make the Agility stat useful for even mages - if Agility affected how fast you could roll out of the way, or nimbly backstep to avoid the snick-snap of a Dragon's jaws closing where you stood a moment ago.

Since it has been officially confirmed that neither will be possible, this thread is redundant. :nono:

Really? That's totally new, source? but one can always dream...

So let me guess,
They transformed a skill based combat system of old age into something dynamic, as much dynamic as you can parry, attack, strafe right left, move front or back or any combination, but you WON T be able to sidestep or any form of dynamic simple dodge based on your skill because....

Because what?
That doesn t make sense from a tradictional RPG stat based combat,
Not does it do any sense from a Dynamic, action game based combat form.

This is bringing the WORST of the two combat method, we will be standing stones bashing at each other until one is burried ?
Doesn t make much sense from a realeased gameplay trailer, even thought if in this trailer we see no dodge and albsolutely awfully bad hitbox implementation, the lately doesn t bother me as long the explanation is:
The combat is dynamic but based on your character skill. If so, and if dodge exist as skill, then it should be implemented ingame.

It depends.

..... I'm imagining a tumbling-roll dodge move. In 1st person.

I'd hope that it wouldn't roll your viewpoint, or I could see alot of people getting motion sick.





My MW & OB combat has always tended to the "hide behind sheild, get whacked, smack them back" style. Most any time I tried to sidestep/dodge, I'd usually get hit. Guess I svck.

On what?

this poll seems bias to me. OB back roll was fine and certainly wasn't unlimited.

Back roll =/= back step But the roll in combat wasn't really useful to me in any way, it looked cool and all but never added anything to the combat. Unlimited as in when fatigue reaches 0 you can still do it, right?

yup, you can still back roll if your fatigue is zero, but there are huge combat consequences (not as big if you are at 1st few levels) because fatigue still affects how much damage your weapons do. so if you are fighting with the most powerful weapons but your fatigue is at 0 you are fighting with nearly as much as 5 less damage than normal (if I remember right)

I found the back roll useful against enemies with long reach, slash a few times and dodge back from the attack. but what I specificly like about the OB dodge system is that is you dont have to use it and if you never know it exists you won't be punished by a very hard combat system. I played OB for 2 years before discovering the back roll. but once you start using it it comes in real handy, espeacialy against necromancers.

All this post shows is that you're completely ignorant of what jiu jitsu and vale tudo are.

If moves such as takedowns etc were available (they kinda were in Fallout: NV) it would only add to the combat experience. However, I appreciate they'd be pretty low priority.
I don't think rolling on the floor or going prone has any place in any direct combat situation, especially not when the other guy has a sword. Footwork however, is one of the most important things in ALL combat styles. ESPECIALLY if the other person is stronger or has a better weapon.

Yes they have. In earlier games you could run backwards as fast as you could run forwards. So, you could backpedal while fighting and just about defeat any enemy if you had enough terrain behind you. In TESV they have changed that. They were working on the values at the time of the interview when this was discussed, but it will along the lines of you can move backwards at 50% (or less) speed than you can move forwards.

As for any special moves, those have always been for attack, I have not seen any defence moves other than certain Blocks that are almost Attacks.

What I meant with backstepping is a fast dodge move, not simply walking backwards. So have they actually released anything about dodging per ce and backstepping per ce, not the backwards movement speed? Cuz I havn't heard anything about those things

There's nothing saying you can't do a backwards dodge. If anyone thinks there is, give me a source.

Anyway, I think it would be a great idea. Also, if you do a backwards dodge, it should make it easier to do a parry repost! Okay, that was my fencing brain coming in again. But yeah, more succesful parries and returning attacks is what that means.

Well not a Demon Souls style of dodging, rolling too frequent, too small fatigue cost, full-plate armor rolling wtf?
Cost of dodge must be greater and better if inventory weight will have more impact on fatigue using then before, so dodging in heavy armor will be much less frequent.
So light armor or not armor at all for nimble and agile characters with small encumbrance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXcP1Edmc38
less dodging for heavy armored characters so they actually will use their armor & shields and will tactically sidestep in combat not crazy rolling around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhmUB2e1-JM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No0hdkCQz_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdLX6Ibdnyc

Or will use range of their weapons as advantage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGuyBsnCwVk

Actually parry weapon strikes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd5qgGVG-SY

Another thing enemy must duck, bob And weave in combat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-d6eS4159c

Todd mentioned thats Skyrim will have 'magnetism' its must be applied to NPC not only to player,
NPC must do the same things what player can do, actually use magic, sneak and combat moves in battle.

I agree that we shoudl expect light armored bandits to backstep/side step and even roll out of our attacks and the heavily armored marauders could use their armor to protect themselves. If stamina reaches 0 you shouldn't be able to roll or dodge in any way for a few seconds until it reaches a point where you can do one roll or dodge and then again have to wait a few seconds. It would make frequent rolling impossible. Demon's Souls system would have been good if rolling would have cost 3,5 times as much stamina and back stepping 2,5 times as much stamina.