I find the whole matter amusing. It's about time another class besides stealth got boned with a lacklustre skill set. Maybe this way, in VI we'll get more of what we like, if we combine forces and [censored] at them together.

Skyrim could do with Far Cry 2 like fire physics, imagine the effect of your fire spells then!

You're still trolling, considering that combined spells are perfectly reasonable (and have existed in previous games) while wielding 4 swords is not. The limit should be that spell combinations cost more magicka than the sum of their parts, as a tradeoff for the convenience of being able to cast the effects at the same time.

Please do not petition to dumb down a series of games I love.
If you dont like it, go play a shooter but do not petition to remove options and stunt gameplay until elder scrolls is yet another carbon coby of a million other games out there and an RPG in name only.

Magic simplified is a bad thing. Removing options means removing gameplay means removing replayability.
I like RPG's because of the options, because of the stats and menus and because not everything is based around the combat.

Overpowered is a non issue.

There is simply no way removing spellmaking is a good thing.

I don't really care what a spell looks like, I care what it does. More so with spell making, I cared what I can make it do. Need to paralyze a bunch of enemies at once for a specifically sized area? Make a spell. Need to paralyze a friendly NPC and make them invisible to keep them getting their but kicked for a long period of time? Make a spell. Need to levitate at an early level, but you need to conserve mana or need it for longer than the stock spell? Make a 1pt levitate spell for "x" seconds. Want to heal and fortify your party in one shot? Make a Spell. Elemental damage, Weakness to Elemental Damage and Weakness to Magica? Make a spell. Silence and Soultrap a necromancer? Make a spell.

Bethesda can not offer enough spells to make up for a loss of spell making, they can't account for everyone's specific needs. The "Spread Sheetery" of magic is present in enchanting and alchemy as well and they are staying in. That is a non-excuse.

It feels like the Mage is taking all the hits. Can't make spells. A major aspect of role playing the Mage, gone. Can't block with a spell and a weapon. The Mage isn't a melee character doesn't have a ton of armor... and now they don't block because Mages don't carry a shield, just a backup weapon in case their spell doesn't finish the job.

I can see youtube Hitler parody now.


I want to bite my tongue, but I almost rather Bethesda delay Skyrim to get spell making in right than be without spell making in Skyrim.

I never understood that, how is this such a giant aspect of roleplaying? It just sounds like an excuse to find ways to break the game for me. It's not cheating, it's research!!
And it's not like, you can't just, instead of screwing around in a menu creating a spell, experiment with the spells live...

Oh no, you actually have to use (gasp) TACTICS!

Also, I'm pretty sure you can block with the shield spell.

So, it's just like Morrowind...

You would understand how Spell Making is part of role playing for the Mage if you understood that because not everything you try works, Spell Making for the player in the game is the same form of trial and error discovery that Spell Making would be if it were in reality. Form follows function as the saying goes.

Tactics is important, but tactics are a product of strategy. Spell Making is the Strategic Defense Initiative of the Mage. Spell Making is the strategic arsenal creation of the Mage.

If you are concerned about my experience due to possible advantages I may gain in my single player game... don't. [...Or make a mod letting any spell I cast once to be added to the NPC spell list]

Maybe the only reason why the spell system in Oblivion was so 'spreadsheety' was because Bethesda didnt put in a spell delete option, and you couldnt reuse spells names even after using a mod to do that.

There was nothing wrong with customising spells, it was just horribly implemented by Bethesda.

Removing spellmaking (and also Birthsigns I hear) just reeks of dumbing down, something I really never expected from Bethesda.

It looks like Skyrim is off my Preorder list now.

Spread sheets are ok. Some people hate them but they give us something to fine tune things or just to play around with. I agree Beth could have done a better job of "spreadsheeting" their spells. Spreadsheets aren't bad its just how you implement them.

I'm not against the new system and will wait my judgement till I try it, but it seems it will be decent. Even though it reeks of being dumbed down for a wider audience.

I often hear some people saying that they hate games which require spreadsheets and tables to understand, though its a very minor case and hardly anyone says it.

To me, this change is being made to appeal to those people.

Oblivions spell system would be a lot better if it was categorised by spell school instead of just a single huge list, and if there was a default option to delete spells you no longer needed.

I really enjoyed spellmaking in Morrowind + Oblivion, I spent countless hours inside frostcrag spire making new spells to try out, I love being able to role play a mage that can make his or her own spells.

It looks like they are purposefully removing that to appeal to people who dont like long lists of things, which was only really a bad thing in the first place because the list was so poorly implemented.

As I said 5 years ago if it results in a much better magic system with fun spells then by all means code away without a spellmaker in mind and just see if one can be made rather then chaining the system to a spellmaker from the start.

But if there is no spell maker that does make the spells they make 1000x more important. They have to rock.

I think maybe we should play the game before we judge.

This sort of topic really isn't going to go anywhere until the game comes out. It's not even confirmed that spell-making is actually out. Until we hear an official statement from a Beth employee, then there is no use arguing and dividing ourselves over an unconfirmed feature.

This

We don't have infinite money to buy a game which isn't an RPG anymore.




+1, probably it's the first step to remove magic at all. Wizard is harder to play because it is harder to grasp. More options, more limits and all. But limiting the class so much to make it futile is just rude.


No, you have to use a shotgun/chaingun/rocket-launcher game-stule. Doom is a far better game in that sense, so why buy what we suppose is an RPG while it's an FPS?

Spells aren't bullets.

What a crock of [censored]. You cannot wield 4 swords because you do not have 4 arms. Just because someone is a mage, does not mean they are not also a fighter. The purpose of magic is to accomplish what you physically could not otherwise. That is why it is MAGIC. A player mage should be able to become as powerful as they like and not bound by limitations of the AI, ESPECIALLY in an RPG. Everything you posted here makes me want to vomit. You know nothing about RP. Please, leave these forums and go back to your life of console FPS and simple board games.

That is what I am hoping for.

I Was never good at spellmaking So I Dont mind that much, The spells sound amazing Though

My favorite class to play in RPGs is a Battlemage / Spellsword based class, spells + light melee is what I like to play.

In Oblivion, making my own custom spells and spending ages in frostcrag spire with my spellmaking and enchantment alters, plus my Alchemy room was wonderful Role Playing for me.

Role playing games arent just about 'playing a role' like all the dumbed down RPGs these days define it as. If I want to play a mage, I want to make my own spells, potion and enchantments, or at least have a customisable spell book D+D style. If I play a warrior type class, I want to be able to forge my own armor and weapons, and make them better than equipment I can buy from merchants, or work on and improve equipment that I loot. If I play a rogue, I want stealth, sneaking, and the ability to complete things without having to kill anyone, or on the other hand to play a silent and deadly assassin if I feel like it, being able to poison my daggers and take out enemies while they arent expecting me.

I want the full complex role playing options of each class, or at least as much of them as possible. I love extensive tables and charts and lots of complex and deep features to look through and plenty of stuff to do. I DONT want my RPGs dumbed down to the point where all you do is run around mindlessly hacking and slashing while playing through a linear story, which is what most laughable excuses of wannabe RPGs are these days.

I really hope that Bethesda dont go down the same dumbing down route that Bioware have recently decided to do. Traditional RPG fans HATE their games being made simplified and dumber and wont support it, and casual players already have PLENTY enough simple games they can be playing instead, and a lot of them still wont like dumbed down RPGs.

There is absolutely no extra market share to be gained from dumbing down RPGs, it is a viral myth that simplified RPGs will somehow sell better, THEY WONT! All they will do is alienate the genres long term fans and lost support for the RPG, and then the developers start wondering why the games arent selling on the PC, start blaming piracy and PC gamers, and head off to making simplified console games instead.

This honestly makes no sense to me. You choose effect, choose how it is cast, and then choose How strong it is/how big an area/how long it lasts. Can't get more simple than that.

if they do get around to making the spells combinable i would like to see some adverse effects and complete failures for mixing the wrong spells XD
oops im a sheep now
oops my face is covered in warts
oops my arm is over there now...ouch.

This is a really freaking cool concept. I would love to be able to mess around and customize my spells as such. I never liked having to go to people to make custom spells anyway it just didn't make a damn bit of sense and it REALLY felt like a lame afterthought once I figured out I had to become a mage guild member and pay gold to make them. But your idea really sounds incredibly fun and I sincerely hope Beth decided to try somthing similar to this.

You know I want spell making pretty badly but people throw the phrase "dumbing down" around way too much. :shakehead:

"Dumbed down" doesn't mean "I didn't get what I want." Don't ignore that they are increasing the ways you can use magic. I will be extremely disappointed if they don't add spell making (I don't care if it's like a spreadsheet) but it's not "dumbing down" it's a design decision.