Yay for this project! It's very interesting for me to read the thread, and see the results. As mentioned in the Integration thread, it is something I really like to have and see!

Two minor comments, ignore them if you like:

Maormer: Maormer are rare, far from a common sight, but likely every citizen knows someone who knows someone who knows someone that has met one. Likely at a port. They're shunned, similar to the Orcs before the Warp in the West*. Open hostility you'll most likely find in Altmers loyal to Sumurset.
* = There were already lots of them living in Tamriel's society, see e.g. "How Orsinium passed the Orcs" or the whole Grey Prince storyline. His background happened before the Warp in the West...

Hidden Elves: Most citizens don't have quarrels with them. They seclude themselves from the world, not the other way around. The average citizen doesn't care about them. Only very religious people may turn "huh?!"
Those that try to go back to the old ways however... cue in "Mankar Camoran". They're indiscriminable from Altmers, and they're quite dangerous and likely no friends of the Blades and the like.
But those are not the Hidden Elves you can play in Integration.
People don't have birthsigns.

Well, most don't. They don't work like the real life birthsigns. One of the indications that the Morrowind player may have been the Nerevarine was that he had a birthsign.

For the Daedra, yes, it is odd. Consider them the signs when they entered Mundus, for convencience's sake.

If it wasn't so dark in there, I'm sure he'd been able to identify them. He's from Morrowind. Sheogorath sent all Aureals needing some stress release rampaging to Morrowind...

Mazken never interacted violently with mortals on Mundus, he has no chance to identify her.

Like I said, If I could get someone on instant messenger to talk to about this on a real-time basis, that would be most helpful... see my profile for contact info.

And if someone could take over it for a little while, that would be even better. I'm starting to get... ehhh... "Modders Fatigue"



Off topic, but other than bg2408 and you... am I the only one who gets the Kara joke? (Kara as part of a canceled alternate romance line for integration... though I would much rather prefer Jo'Bella as an "alternate"/additional choice. (Tesh doesn't seem to really mind Jobella, and actually seems to sympathize with her a bit. Plus Tesh isn't exactly the possessive type I don't think.))

no takers?

I wish, but I don't want to spread myself out. I'm working on some interiors for RedBag at the moment, along with improving my modeling skills for Hammerfell, so....I won't be putting this onto my plate

I would be willing to chat with you live to discuss this mod further. But the only time I'm available is after 11:30 PM Eastern Time. Is that okay with you?

I was mostly just listing them all so that he could pick and choose which ones felt far too wrong. (like calling a daedra a daedra-slayer)

Also this:
*OFF TOPIC RAMBLE*

The whole game is pretty negative towards Daedra and those that work with Daedra, I mean just look at the "good" Daedra shrine quests... Most of them involve a horrible fate befalling Daedra worshipers.


I think I once saw bg describe elder scrolls lore as; like a collection of stories and different view points. Like say the Dwemer would describe their ascension one way, and Azura and her followers would describe it a completely different way, and neither one is labeled as "right" or "wrong"... Maybe not the best example since I don't know very much on the Dwemer thing, but anyway.... I'm not sure if Bethesda agrees with bg's assesment of the lore, but personally I find his assessment more interesting than:
"I good, you bad, me purge bad thing from my holy land!"
"Grrrr me evil, me want destroy you and do bad stuff, rawr!"

You know, the whole black and white thing, it's just so generic and boring. I mean sure you can keep one part of the above, but at least one of them has to be more interesting than the generic "Good versus Evil" Like maybe the "good" guy is killing the "bad" guy for no reason other than him not agreeing with the good guy and being a threat to his power, or maybe the "bad" guy just has opposing political and philosophical views.

In Oblivion any sense of gray is really thrown out the window a lot in the main quests and most other quests.
1: The "Oblivion" Generalization
2: The "Daedra" Stereotype
3: When you actually visit the "paradise" it's just a giant torture chamber that everyone except for Camaron and the Daedra hate.

If some characters realize the error of their bigoted ways all the better, though granted.... you don't want to over do it with people starting to chant "Daedra are awesome!", and selling Daedra action figures everywhere you go, but just a little less 1 sided black and white crap would be nice.

*ON TOPIC*
Well, anyways.... I'm back for the weekend. Any other quests, 'misc dialogue' quests, or character dialogue you want me to look at?

I can't really take over "for a little while" given my lack of computer time, general inexperience with the CS, and just a plain old short attention span. I would definitely put some work in if I could though.

Well as far as I know bg never publicly mentioned the Kara/Tesh dueling romance idea that was eventually ruled out. I mentioned it to you on that Youtube comment, but beyond that I don't think it's public knowledge. Maybe your next project can be adding a rival romance with Kara :rofl: jk

Yes that is fine.



Like I said, I'd rather prefer one with Jo'bella. :wub: . I dunno what it is with her, I just like the whole shy girl/innocence thing goin on with her. Plus being a furry I'm guessed I'm a bit biased twoards cats. ... Oh and she looks drop-dead gorgeous in that silvermoon outfit of hers :blush:

... And unlike Kara she and Tesh don't hate each other. Maybe if you played your cards right, the "whole" quest could in hot a Tesh/Jo'bella/Player threesome... :drool:

Unfortunately I don't have nearly enough time for this, so I can only say: Take your time. Best medicine against modder fatigue is to not overstress yourself.

This alternative romance was never really announced in public :blink:.


As long as the soul/spirit belongs to her...

*OFF TOPIC RAMBLE*
The problem is, there are no good or bad Daedra.

Some people think that "Daedric Prince" refers to some kind of monarchy, with queens, kings and princes. However that is not the source of that word, it's principalities. In essence Daedric Princes are principles, ideas. That's why they're immortal - you can't fight ideas with arrows. (Aedra anchored parts of them in the world, therefore their sphere is not bound to them anymore - that's why they can die.)

There are some more and some less destructive ones. Azura is less destructive than Mehrunes Dagon, but that doesn't make her good. Best example would be Akatosh and Mehrunes Dagon. Both are other expressions of some very destructive ideas - the fight between Mehrunes Dagon and Akatosh at the end of Oblivion is somewhat of a multiple personality disorder fighting against himself (something like the Fight Club ending), because both are destruction (Akatosh much more so than Mehrunes). However look what reputation Akatosh has. Mehrunes Dagon is somewhat of a firefighter trying to create a fire break just where creation is. Akatosh is the fire. (That's why Kara and Tess always use his other name, World-Eater.)

I think Oblivion didn't do the Daedra justice. Look at Battlespire, Morrowind, or even Shivering Isles. In Oblivion they had to play the roles of generic bad guys. Didn't work out.

And lesser Daedra aren't fleshed out, either. Look at Battlespire: In the end Mehrunes Dagon was defeated by two (err, three) persons, the mortal hero of the game and his ally, the lesser Daedroth Jaciel Morgan, first among Nocturnal's servants. The stuff in Tesh's backstory? It isn't all made up . (And his other ally, Imago Storm, a Dremora lord still loyal to Mehrunes Dagon.)

(Which happens to be a kind of plot explanation point in Integration, really. In Battlespire Mehrunes prefered typical Xivilai strategy, so the Dremora rebelled. In Oblivion Mehrunes acts more along the Dremora ways, so you've got Xivilais saying "forget it!" all over the place - Lesh, Firu, Quurunae, etc.)

//edit: Hrmpf. Now I think I spoiled something that I hadn't intended to. I wonder if someone figured that out before .
Actually, it's not.

Paradise is a class room. The mortals there have developed daedric qualities, immortality - but they won't stay immortal until they understand that they are immortal. "Walk like them, until they must walk like you" is something the Mythic Dawnies there haven't mastered yet, therefore it is shown to them that they are immortal. Through their death and rebirth. Until they understand. If they leave Paradise (to which they're currently bound) before they understand, they're bound to Mundus gain - and so their souls would go to the Dreamsleeve.

Hm... now that's an idea!

Sorry for the lore ramble.

Personally,, I kind of have a thing for the strong, independant, sarcastic, and slightly cruel women. :blush: Also I have a sort of enchantment with bizzarre/strange/unique things. Cat romances? pretty common. Big hulking masses of destruction? not so much.

Trying to think of some quests that could use more new dialogue... kind of drawing a blank at the moment especially since I'm away from my computer with Oblivion and such on it uhh...

Maybe the farmer who wants you to kill goblins to avenge his wifewould be a little agressive when first talkingto an orc, mistaking him for a really big one...

I had an idea for the shivering isles main questline for mazkens/aureals. It basically changes the idea of the plot (but not the plot itself) from a mortal champion attaining godhood into something else, as well as providing a backstory for Aureal/Mazken characters.


Basicly the plotline/backstory goes like this: