i can't tell if this thread is a joke.

i want it to be one so i can say "ha ha i fell for it" and go on with my day.

While I get where you are coming from in this particular post, using franchises that have been around for 30 years to discredit the amount of content of others is beyond cheap.

Well...Shor/Shezarr/Lorkhan does often appear as avatars. The two most famous being King Wulfhart and Pelinal.

The khajiit are born in different forms, depending on the moons. You should know that already if you read the books, along with the RL book, the Infernal City. Also, Redguard came up with the Suthays, which was really when lore in TES was taken with a more serious approach.

As for the topic in hand, it would be a grave injustice to not have Shor/Shezarr/Lorkhan around, or have followers in every major city. He's big daddy to the nords, Mr. Number 1, etc. Hell, the nords are pretty much Shor/Shezarr/Lorkhan's soldiers against the forces of the stark raving mad time god, Akatosh/Alduin/Auriel.

Of course not. Myths have similarities, but they dont tell the same story. And you base it in the "memories"? But thats also a religious interpretation. We have these things in the real world: explanations of common concepts in world religions, whether they are alien to each other, or related (in our case, Middle-eastern religions). This is called religious anthropology. The whole idea of common ancestry for the races, while Im not saying its wrong, could as well be a way of making Imperial citizens, no mater there race, believe in a common ancestry with each other.

Even the Eight Divines cult is an invention, and myth in TES works exactly like in real life (of course, I have the bias of an unbeliever): gods are determined by worshippers, not the other way around. So these beings, forces or gods exist, but they dont exist like you and I do.

I do agree that TES has an impressive amount of lore in it for a video game series, but when people start going nuts and nerding out on the lore of it as though it were on the same level as Star Wars and LOTR I just have to roll my eyes. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that so many of you love the lore for TES, and I do as well, but I guess I'm probably just set in my ways of thinking that nothing will ever be greater than LOTR, and Star Wars in that regard.

Funny I was just thinking about this tonight. I re-read that 4 songs of ysmir book in Oblivion (ysmir shouting at people in the book made more sense to me now the first time I read it I thought it was a figure of speech :dry: ) according to that book lorkhan has already defeated alduin before, granted you gotta take what is said in any books with a grain of salt but I suspect lorkhan is going to be a much bigger problem than any dragon.

The only scenario in which Lorkhan would show up is if his creation (the mortal realm) ceised to be what he wanted it to be from the start, i.e. a part of the universe that is both constantly changing and never loses it's identity over time (i.e. it has an element of permanency). He'd then, just like Sheogorath, take steps to return things to the status quo.

So the Lore that Bethesda build for The Elder Scrolls, they shouldn't be allowed to change at all because of one angry fan raging online? Lore in fiction changes happen all the time, nothing is set - Even LOTR's and Star Wars have major lore changes. Change happens to be a big part of the Elder Scrolls, the Aedra are changed by the actions of mortals. The Psijic Order revere Change as one the greatest force. Change has been underlying theme of every TES game so far.

I think Danger Dan is reffering to an ACTIVE role in Skyrim. For example, the meteor that killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago plays a vitally important role in the story of how I went to the shops today, as if it didn't happen, I would not exist and there would be dinosaurs (maybe) roaming around still with all sorts of bizzare things going on that we'll never experience. But it sure as hell doesn't take an active role in the story.

But the thing is, the gods of TES exist. With the Nine, you can wear their relics of the Crusader and get their blessings. With the Daedric Princes, you can see them and talk to them and be killed by them. These "memories" are not religious interpretation. For example, every mortal remembers Lorkhan. EVERY MORTAL. Without being told. He is in every creation myth. And yet we can't interact with him or see him. He's dead to the world. But everyone remembers.

The devs wouldn't write these things if they were wrong. In TES, we have metaphysics much more figured out than in the real world, it just comes down to which bias you want to side with. Is Lorkhan the hero of man, or the villain of mer?

Myths are not the same in the real world as TES. Myths are what makes Alduin appear to the Imperials as Akatosh. The gods were not invented by mortals. I'm an unbeliever in real life too, but that's not how it works in TES.


So...the main plot of Skyrim. Alduin eating the world.

Really? I thought when you said "remembered" you meant they were told by their ancestors and so the "memory" lived on like that, but everyone knows who he is at birth? Everyone knows everything about the gods (though slightly differently to others depending on where they're born or who they're born to(?)) from the moment they come into the world?

And here I thought we were talking about a fantasy series. Reality would therefore be an invasive bad thing.

As for Lorkhan, since he is in part Alduin/Akatosh then by default he will be there. As his own individual consciousness? No clue, but it would be cool.

On the plus side, Todd said they wanted to go back towards the alien-ness of Morrowind. Oblivion wasn't fantasy enough for me sometimes (but not all the time, damn I love debating just what that ending was).

And yes, TES gods empirically exist in the fiction. Time is literally a dragon.

Not every god. Just Lorkhan.

Oh. I thought you said that the creation myth was undeniably entirely accurate because they remember it... Why Lorkhan then? Why do they remember him?

Lorkhan is the creator. His nature is Mundus. No Lorkhan, no Mundus. They just...remember. Magic!

The correct answer is "The Aldmer remember because, they claim, their ancestors were gods along with them. The humans remember because, they claim, their anscestors were servants to the gods." However the fact is that they do remember, at the core, Lorkhan got the soon-to-be-Aedra together and they all put a part of themselves into Mundus, then Lorkhan was "killed," then the world became as you see it.

Not the thead ! - Only some posters are. :blush:
If you ignore the "lore-ignorers" it can be quite entertaining and very interesting, too (if you're interested in TES-lore, like myself).

Considering Lorkhan is Shor to the Nords, and is the enemy to other gods I believe he will have an appearance in Skyrim. Also given that he is seen as a Warrior King in the Nordic mythology I would bank a large amount of septims on the Dovakhiin being a rebirth of him as was stated earlier in this thread by someone.

This is all my opinion of course. So don't flame please.