Source of instability : IV

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:10 pm

I'm getting regular (but not generally persistent) crashes. I've applied the 4gb patch and managed to rule out instability due to resource limitation as the source of my problems anyway. The crashes don't seem to be specific to anywhere in particular.

Load order.

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Windfall.esm02  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.0]03  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5b]04  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5b]05  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]06  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]07  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]08  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]09  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]0A  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm0B  Better Cities Resources.esm  [Version 4.8.3]0C  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]0D  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]0E  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp0F  Better Cities .esp10  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp11  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]12  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]13  LoadingScreens.esp14  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp15  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.1]16  Immersive Interiors.esp  [Version 0.7]17  Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp  [Version 0.7]18  Natural_Water_by_Max_Tael.esp19  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.1]1A  WindowLightingSystem.esp1B  AliveWaters.esp1C  AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp1D  AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp1E  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp1F  Fish! - v1.1.esp20  P1DseeYouSleep.esp21  PTFallingStars.esp22  RAEVWD Cities.esp  [Version 1.8]23  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 4.3.1]24  Crowded Cities 15.esp25  Crowded Roads.esp  [Version 2.0]26  Populated Prisons.esp27  CapesandCloaks.esp++  CM_Better Wine.esp++  RustyItems.esp28  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp29  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2A  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]2B  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]2C  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]2D  Alluring Potion Bottles.esp2E  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2F  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]30  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]31  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SpawnRatesSlightlyReduced.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]32  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Undead Rise.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]33  Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]34  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]35  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]36  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]37  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp  [Version 1.39c]38  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]39  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3A  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]3B  00RBScribeSupplies Intensive.esp3C  A_ship_near_Anvil-7781.esp3D  Amajor7 Imperial Furniture.esp3E  BrotherhoodRenewed.esp  [Version 1.0.8]3F  BrotherhoodRenewed - Oblivion XP Patch.esp40  Extended Imperial City Version 1.0.esp41  GTAesgaard.esp42  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp++  Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp43  Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp44  Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp45  GlenvarCastle.esp46  Malevolent.esp47  Nerussa The Wine Collector v1.0.esp48  Nascosto Isles 3.esp49  Region Revive - Lake Rumare.esp4A  Elder Council Plugin 1.1.esp4B  VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp4C  Villages1.1.esp4D  Windfall.esp4E  Cyrodiil Travel Services.esp  [Version 2.0.3]4F  TOTF.esp++  TOTF Delayer.esp50  RTT.esp51  RTT-Weye Relocation Patch.esp  [Version 2.0.1]52  The Lost Spires.esp53  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts.esp54  ImpeREALForts+LostSpires Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]55  Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp56  AFK_Weye.esp  [Version 2.1.Non-COBL]57  Rumare-AFK_Weye Patch.esp  [Version 2.0]58  road+bridges.esp  [Version 4.5.7]59  Feldscar.esp  [Version 1.0.4]5A  Vergayun.esp  [Version 1.0.4]5B  Faregyl.esp  [Version 1.0.10]5C  Molapi.esp  [Version 1.0]5D  PTMudwater.esp5E  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.5]5F  LostSpires-DarkForest patch.esp60  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.2]61  xulTheHeath.esp62  XulEntiusGorge.esp63  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]64  LostSpires-Everglade patch.esp  [Version 1.2]65  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.1]66  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]67  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.4]68  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.2]69  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3.1]6A  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.3]6B  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]6C  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.3]6D  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.3]6E  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]6F  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.2]70  xulPantherRiver.esp71  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.2]72  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.1]73  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.6]74  RegionReviveLakeRumare-ImperialIsle patch.esp  [Version 1.3.4]75  xulBlackwoodForest.esp  [Version 1.1.0]76  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]77  TearsOfTheFiend-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp78  KvatchRebuilt-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp79  Villages-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp7A  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0.2]7B  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp  [Version 1.0.1]7C  xulSnowdale.esp  [Version 1.0]7D  Feldscar+Snowdale Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]7E  OOO-Snowdale Patch.esp7F  NRB4+UL-II Patch.esp  [Version 5.0.1]80  NRB4+RR Patch.esp  [Version 2.1]81  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]82  Enhanced Vegetation [125%].esp83  Quest Award Leveller.esp  [Version 2.0.1]84  Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp85  MidasSpells.esp86  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.5]87  Oblivion XP.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - OOO.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Kvatch Rebuilt.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Glenvar Castle.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Lost Spires.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - UL Colovian Highlands.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - UL Lost Coast.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - UL Brena.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - UL Blackwood Forest.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]88  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicItemSigil.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]89  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]8A  bgMagicAlchemy.esp  [Version 1.57]8B  bgMagicPotionNumberSoulGemValue.esp  [Version 1.68UV]8C  Better Cities Full.esp  [Version 4.8.3]8D  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp  [Version 4.7.0]8E  Better Cities - Ruined Tail's Tale.esp  [Version 4.8.0]8F  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp  [Version 4.7.0]90  Better Cities - Tears of the Fiend.esp  [Version 4.7.0]91  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp  [Version 4.8.1]92  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp  [Version 4.8.1]93  Better Imperial City.esp  [Version 4.8.1]94  Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp  [Version 4.8.1]95  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Imperial Isle.esp  [Version 4.8.1]96  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicShaderLifeDetect.esp  [Version 1.68]97  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp98  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]**  NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.1]99  Bashed Patch, 0.esp9A  xulCliffs of Anvil.esp

Can anyone see anything that might be causing problems?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:36 pm

Are you running on a 32bit or 64bit OS?

If you're on a 32bit, the LAA patch doesn't do jack.

You could also try adding a PCB mod like Streamline, too, that might help increase your playtime a bit (at the expense of increased load times).

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:59 pm

Adding mods to Oblivion causes the game to crash at times. Even though you aren't running a very large amount of mods, you do have a decent load order. From my experience, that will cause problems.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:19 am

I can only comment on my experience, but I had consistent crashes with FCOM. Not frequesnt mind you (sometime 1 every 3 hours, sometimes 1 per hour), but enough that I took to using streamline to save every 5 minutes. Funny though, I had seen nearly identical load orders for other users who did not experience this. Anyway, I rethought how I want to play the game and went with MMM and Frans one time, and MMM and OOO and ROM another time. Both of those nearly eliminated my CTDs to 3-4 in a 70 hour game (with sessions lasting 6-8 hours without CTD).

I also do not use the crowded roads and crowded cities as the AI added a pretty good cpu load that slowed the game too much for me.

My advice is start with a small base and only add quest mods when you want to play the quest, not before unless it needs to be added early.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:33 am

I'm on a 64 bit system, so thats covered, and I PCB myself reguarly. These crashes seem to occur on a 15-25 minute basis as well, so I think it's more than just general instability.

Anyway, I've decided to cut back to just bare Frans for now, which seems to have helped, though I can't tell completely yet.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:21 pm

How much RAM do you have? If it's not >4GB you're still shooting yourself in the foot even on a 64bit OS. You'll probably also need to do some configuration with OSR to get things to work out.

For what it's worth, my current OSR configuration:

Spoiler

Master = {
_comment = You can turn on or off each distinct feature from here.
bManageFPS = 1
bHookCriticalSections = 1
bHookHashtables = 1
bReplaceHeap = 1
bLogToConsole = 0
bFix64Hertz = 1
bFlushLog = 1
iSchedulingResolution = 1
bExtraProfiling = 0
bExperimentalStuff = 0
iMainHookPoint = 1
}
Experimental = {
bMonitorBSShaderAccumulator = 0
iPrintSceneGraphDepth = 0
bReplaceRawRandom = 1
bReplaceExtraRandom = 1
bSuppressRandomSeeding = 0
iRandomQuality = 0
}
FPS_Management = {
_comment = Basic FPS stuff, switches to slow-motion on low FPS; in the past this has occaisonally produced bugs like the NPCs-dropping-dead issue; the issues are believed to be fixed but if you suspect you are having related problems you can try disabling bAllowSlowMotion which is the main suspect for any problems relating to FPS management
bAllowSlowMotion = 1
MaximumFPS = 30
MinimumFPS = 10
iSmoothFrames = 0
iSmoothMode = 0
iSleepExtra = 2
bFPSConsoleSPAM = 0
iSchedulingParanoia = 1
iHardMaxFrametime = 200
}
CriticalSections = {
_comment = CS stuff helps both Oblivion and Fallout significantly
_comment = most of the benefit comes from the Renderer+0x180 suppression (see overrides below)
_comment = modes: 1=vanilla, 2=fair, 3=stuttering, 5=suppressed, 6=prioritize-main-thread, 7=deprioritize-main-thread
bEnableProfiling = 0
bEnableMessages = 1
bUseOverrides = 1
iDefaultMode = 2
iDefaultSpin = 1000
iStutterLevel = 4
}
Heap = {
_comment = Heap replacement can produce MAJOR improvements in performance on Oblivion, only moderate improvements on Fallout
_comment = It crashes instantly on Fallout, is moderately buggy on Oblivion
_comment = Algorithms: 1=FastMM4 (requires external dll), 2=Microsoft (slow on XP), 3=SimpleHeap1, 5=ThreadHeap2
iHeapAlgorithm = 5
bEnableProfiling = 0
iHeapSize = 1024
bEnableMessages = 0
iGenericFreeDelay = 0
}
Hashtables = {
_comment = This stuff is still new.
_comment = The dynamic resizing option may still be buggy.
bAllowDynamicResizing = 1
bUseOverrides = 0
bEnableProfiling = 0
bEnableMessages = 1
iHashtableResizeScale1 = 2
iHashtableResizeScale2 = 4
iHashtableResizeDelay = 20
}
OverrideList = {
CriticalSection = {
CallerAddress = 0x701748
comment = Renderer+0x180, recommendation=suppress (mode 5)
Mode = 5
}
CriticalSection = {
ObjectAddress = 0xB32B80
comment = MemoryHeap CS, recommendation=stutter (mode 3)
Mode = 3
Spin = 1500
}
CriticalSection = {
CallerAddress = 0x70172A
comment = Renderer+0x80, recommendation=???
}
CriticalSection = {
ObjectAddress = 0xB3FA00
comment = Unknown4, recommendation=???
}
}

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:22 pm

I've only got 4gb, and thats something that I'm unlikely to be able to change in the near future. I've tested it and managed to rule out resource limitation as the issue anyway.

This is my OSR configuration. Its the same as yours except I don't have the hashtables replaced. Also, I seem to have a smaller ini than you do...odd.

Spoiler

Master = {
_comment = You can turn on or off each distinct feature from here.
bManageFPS = 1
bHookCriticalSections = 1
bHookHashtables = 1
bReplaceHeap = 1
bLogToConsole = 0
bFix64Hertz = 1
bFlushLog = 1
iSchedulingResolution = 1
iMainHookPoint = 1
}
FPS_Management = {
_comment = Basic FPS stuff, switches to slow-motion on low FPS; in the past this has occaisonally produced bugs like the NPCs-dropping-dead issue; the issues are believed to be fixed but if you suspect you are having related problems you can try disabling bAllowSlowMotion which is the main suspect for any problems relating to FPS management
bAllowSlowMotion = 1
MaximumFPS = 30
MinimumFPS = 10
iSmoothFrames = 0
iSmoothMode = 0
iSleepExtra = 2
bFPSConsoleSPAM = 0
iSchedulingParanoia = 1
iHardMaxFrametime = 200
}
CriticalSections = {
_comment = CS stuff helps both Oblivion and Fallout significantly
_comment = most of the benefit comes from the Renderer+0x180 suppression (see overrides below)
_comment = modes: 1=vanilla, 2=fair, 3=stuttering, 5=suppressed, 6=prioritize-main-thread, 7=deprioritize-main-thread
bEnableProfiling = 0
bEnableMessages = 1
bUseOverrides = 1
iDefaultMode = 2
iDefaultSpin = 1000
iStutterLevel = 4
}
Heap = {
_comment = Heap replacement can produce MAJOR improvements in performance on Oblivion, only moderate improvements on Fallout
_comment = It crashes instantly on Fallout, is moderately buggy on Oblivion
_comment = Algorithms: 1=FastMM4 (requires external dll), 2=Microsoft (slow on XP), 3=SimpleHeap1, 5=ThreadHeap2
iHeapAlgorithm = 5
bEnableProfiling = 0
iHeapSize = 1024
bEnableMessages = 0
}
Hashtables = {
_comment = This stuff is still new.
_comment = The dynamic resizing option may still be buggy.
bAllowDynamicResizing = 0
bUseOverrides = 0
bEnableProfiling = 0
bEnableMessages = 1
iHashtableResizeScale1 = 2
iHashtableResizeScale2 = 4
iHashtableResizeDelay = 20
}
OverrideList = {
CriticalSection = {
CallerAddress = 0x701748
comment = Renderer+0x180, recommendation=suppress (mode 5)
Mode = 5
}
CriticalSection = {
ObjectAddress = 0xB32B80
comment = MemoryHeap CS, recommendation=stutter (mode 3)
Mode = 3
Spin = 1500
}
CriticalSection = {
CallerAddress = 0x70172A
comment = Renderer+0x80, recommendation=???
}
CriticalSection = {
ObjectAddress = 0xB3FA00
comment = Unknown4, recommendation=???
}
}

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:54 pm

How much RAM do you have? If it's not >4GB you're still shooting yourself in the foot even on a 64bit OS. You'll probably also need to do some configuration with OSR to get things to work out.

So you're saying that there is no benefit from using the 4GB patch if you have 4 GB of RAM? I think your wrong. If you have less than 4GB there may be no benefit.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:36 am

Hmmmm.....I see you are using Oblivion.esm. Have you tried playing without that mod, surely the game is alot more stable if you take out Oblivion. ^_^

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:26 pm

So you're saying that there is no benefit from using the 4GB patch if you have 4 GB of RAM? I think your wrong. If you have less than 4GB there may be no benefit.

I'm pretty sure the 4GB patch does jack [censored] no matter how much RAM. I have six gigs, Win7x64 eats up just under one gig, as soon as Oblivion gets to 45% RAM useage, it's going to crash. Inevitably. That means with the 4GB patch, Oblivion will still crash out once it eats up 2GB.

So, in my own personal experience, the LAA flag does absolutely nothing. Or OBSE doesn't turn the flag back on when it finishes loading O. Either way, still capped at 2GB.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:24 pm

I'm pretty sure the 4GB patch does jack [censored] no matter how much RAM. I have six gigs, Win7x64 eats up just under one gig, as soon as Oblivion gets to 45% RAM useage, it's going to crash. Inevitably. That means with the 4GB patch, Oblivion will still crash out once it eats up 2GB.

So, in my own personal experience, the LAA flag does absolutely nothing. Or OBSE doesn't turn the flag back on when it finishes loading O. Either way, still capped at 2GB.

Running the LAA patch on obse_launcher does nothing. You need to run it on oblivion.exe. I have found that oblivion will go up to almost 3 gig now before crapping out. I have 4gig of ram, and winxp x64.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:48 pm

Running the LAA patch on obse_launcher does nothing. You need to run it on oblivion.exe. I have found that oblivion will go up to almost 3 gig now before crapping out. I have 4gig of ram, and winxp x64.

Yeah, I patched the game exe, not obse.

Also did it manually with CFFE, no difference.

My reference to OBSE was, when it initializes, it apparently temporarily clears the LAA flag so that the program can recognize the game.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:17 am

Yeah, I patched the game exe, not obse.

Also did it manually with CFFE, no difference.

My reference to OBSE was, when it initializes, it apparently temporarily clears the LAA flag so that the program can recognize the game.

Must be something wrong. On my 64 bit Win7 system with 4GB RAM and the LAA patch I easily get over 2.5GB Oblivion.exe usage before it crashes while before it was arounf 1.7GB. I went through testing multiple times before I could believe it.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:49 pm

So you're saying that there is no benefit from using the 4GB patch if you have 4 GB of RAM? I think your wrong. If you have less than 4GB there may be no benefit.

Tell that to Windows when you've suddenly given all the resources to the game and the OS struggles to keep ahold of how ever much it wants. The OS wins those battles every time. If you only have 4GB, you need to trim down the background processes for the OS so you don't end up with little or no gain.

I'm pretty sure the 4GB patch does jack [censored] no matter how much RAM. I have six gigs, Win7x64 eats up just under one gig, as soon as Oblivion gets to 45% RAM useage, it's going to crash. Inevitably. That means with the 4GB patch, Oblivion will still crash out once it eats up 2GB.

So, in my own personal experience, the LAA flag does absolutely nothing. Or OBSE doesn't turn the flag back on when it finishes loading O. Either way, still capped at 2GB.

You've got something wrong then. It's been documented as clearly working for pretty much everyone who can use it. Sometimes it does require some tweaking with OSR to get right though. As was the case for me. I've seen my memory usage as high as 3GB before with the game *IF* it crashes, which is thankfully quite rare now.