I don't see how the Crimson scars will really add anything. Hell, the Morag Tong make more sense, and as a lot of people should know, my stance is that the MT doesn't make too much sense.

Keep the DB a monopolistic assassination group, will to assassinate for anyone and everyone, for a price, and the anyone who dares encroach on their business will meet their end, along with any employers/sponsors.. Also, make it more secular, like they're supposed to be. The MT should hold the title of religious killers who praise a death or sorts god in every kill (Melphala).

Plus, the freaking DB started in Skyrim, and thrive on chaos! Hell, the biggest score they gained was from the chaos of the second era, which lasted after the assassination of the potentate to Tiber's rise.

I don't know. See, Rowly Eardwulf was given Deepscorn Hollow by Greywyn. And the Font of Renewal was inside Deepscorn Hollow. So he could of cured it. Ingameplay doesn't say he is a vampire. But then again, Seridur was never really an Altmer in the game. It's possible he might try to resurrect the Scars. Greywyn tried in the last months after the second purification took place. "It's been nearly a month, and yet none of my brethren has returned to the fold."Greywyn., so either they are all dead or maybe they simply were in hiding and did not want to try anything stupid while the Dark brotherhood was out and about. Chances are, Rowly is still a vampire from the Cyrodilic strain.

Morag Tong is not all vampire. They svck. But then again, that's my opinion. MT don't serve a dark entity like Sithis but a non dark Daedric Prince. It's not dark enough. Crimson Scars an give us a chance to play in a new assassin guild. But not many people even ehard of the Scars, so I doubt Bethesda would bring them back.

Although Greywyn Blenwyth was used in ES work before. The guide book I bought in stores after Oblivion was released had a small excert that depicted Greywyn in an old Ayleid Ruin, trying to survive from bandits. In this small section he was an assassin and even prayed to the Night Mother. I would like to heard more of him.

Yea, that's why the Black Hand murdered the Crimson Scars while they were all sleeping. They knew they would be no match for them awake.

Pretty much agree with this. I hated the Dark Brotherhood because all the members were psychotic serial killers. Who do you think makes a better assassin, a calm levelheaded killer who can easily fit in with the crowd or a sadistic socially awkward murderer that extracts extreme pleasure from mutilating their victims? I'll take the dude that does it quick, clean and for the money.

Then rename the Dark Brotherhood to "Hitmen" guild. I prefer a calm levelheaded killer who fits in a crowd and murders for money, but at the same time worships a dark entity but without the "Oooh yea, I love chopping people to pieces and feasting on their entrails."

Keep some of the darkness in the Dark Brotherhood, but they should not overdo it like in Oblivion, because that was too much.

Obviously based on the Dark Brotherhoods track record, I can say that the "psychotic serial killers" made better assassains than you think.

All hail our dread father!

its not goth bro, its just a f***ed up cult of death worshipers, thats not goth, nor was it written by a 13 year old, to call that quest childish is to call yourself a fool and prove it in the same sentence. the night mother is more akin to charon or death and is grounded in historical religions with a little fantasy flair. and your also being insanely rude not just to the development staff but also millions of young kids who have that VERY REAL problem. now i didn't care for the dark brotherhood much either but i would never go around insulting it the way you just did. watch your mouth and grow up a bit before calling someone a pubascent razor jockey "goth" lol.
:deal:

Melphala is dark, and it is known that the DF branch has followers of Melphala in their ranks. Hell, the Night Mother is very likely to be Melphala (in OB).

And this whole Sithis deal is utter crap. Dunno about you, but worshiping something that still amounts to worshiping gravity in RL isn't much.

What Steve the Pirate said for what he wants is supposed to be what the DB are like. The Cyrodiilic chapter of the DB was horrifically cliche in the whole psychotic assassins department, it ended up going way pass the point of funny.

now on a serious topic.
an assassins guild thats not too morally conflicted but has been known to take contracts that involve unspeakable motives, you join because of your sneak skill was recognized or you were imprisoned for murder. NOT because your killing was observed, and the contracts are not from a spiritual entity but from actual people and for serious gold.

an assassins guild that is headed by a noble family, they recieve bounty like contracts from the people and occasionally stage assassinations of corrupt officials. the opposition to the guild above, you are paid less but have peace of mind that your not burning down orphanages and impaling priests...unless they are bad orphans XD
[yes i AM a fan of AC

for the record, i had no problem with that guys opinion, just the way he stated it and pretended like it was ok. and i actually detested the oblivion version of the DB. i liked morrowinds MUCH better.

Agreed and agreed on the AC fan part. Besides mindless killing. Stalk your target for a week lets say. Find a consistency in his daily schedule and kill him without anyone knowing. Besides go in this cave and kill this guy. Why? Cause I said so.

Some people seem to think that any sort of "dark" character is automatically "goth" or "emo", really, the Dark Brotherhood members never really struck me as that. In fact, some of them seemed like they'd be pretty nice people if it weren't for the fact that they were part of a guild whose entire purpose in existence is to kill people, minus the orc who makes it pretty clear that he takes great pleasure in killing people, of course, that guy is clearly not right in the head. Okay, maybe Lucien Lechance kind of qualifies, I mean, just listen to what he has to say about the Night Mother, when you talk about svckling malice and pain from the Night Mother''s briast, even if only metaphorically, you have problems.



If anything, I'd argue that the generic cold, quiet assassin thing that we can presume the Dark Brotherhood was like in past games (I never joined them in Daggerfall though so I'm not sure what it's actually like, but in Morrowind the writing clearly says we're supposed to believe they're like that.) is cliche, while we've certainly seen psychotic murderous cults before, actually letting the player become part of one is pretty unusual. On the other hand, when have you ever seen an assassin in fiction that isn't calm, quick and to the point? That's pretty much the model of a cliche take on assassins, the Oblivion Dark Brotherhood actually struck me as reletively original as far as assassin's guilds go, whether it was a good idea or not is another matter, but I have to give them points for breaking from the norm, something Oblivion didn't do with its other factions (The Fighters Guild, for example, was pretty much exactly what it sounds like, and became boring as a result.) The Dark Brotherhood was my favorite faction questline in Oblivion. My main problem here is that there's not really any middle ground between being the noble knightly sort and joining the guild of murderous psychopaths, even the Thieves Guild didn't fulfill that because they were more of a Robin Hood sort, so while they're certainly illegal, it's debatable whether they really satisfy the less noble characters. There should be more room for middle ground between being a saint and a complete monster, and awkwardly wavering between the two doesn't count.

Also, aside from the orc, the Dark Brotherhood hardly struck me as inefficient, in fact, the contracts are always encouraging the player to use subtlety. The members may take pleasure in killing people, but most of them have the sense to do it in an effcient way when it's needed... most of them.

And since we're talking about assassin's guilds, I might as well give my thoughts on the Morag Tong, simply put, their boring. It's not the concept of the Morag Tong that I dislike, the idea of a legal, "honorable" assassin's guild that doesn't use subtlety because it doesn't need to is pretty unusual, but that very aspect that sets the guild apart from similar factions in other settings is what makes it so boring to actually do the quests, there's no need for stealth and subtlety, just walk up to your target, and kill him, if you have the writ, there will be no problem with the law, and walking up to someone and killing him is something you can do in any faction, a guild whose quests are modeled around it doesn't make for an interesting faction to be a part of on its own. Usually, the appeal of being an assassin in a game comes from needing to rely on stealth to kill people, and potentially needing to do so in creative fashions, it's about finding the most efficient, most effective way to kill someone possible, the entire concept of the Morag Tong ruined the appeal of a guild of assassins, yet if the Morag Tong returned but that aspect of them were removed, then there would really be nothing meaningful seperating them from the Dark Brotherhood. In short, the Morag Tong is the sort of idea that probably sounds interesting on paper, but doesn't actually make for fun gameplay.

how is quietly going about murdering folks for money any less crazy than doing it for a "god" or whatever?