You're doing this the wrong way around. You have to show that the different appearances of the Argonians aren't due to differences in depiction between each game as every race has these differences in depiction.

The Khajiit on the other hand are explicitly divided into 16 different subspecies, with some of the old depictions retconned in as one of the subspecies. Though this only worked temporarily because the next game depicts what is now one of the subspecies differently again.

Pulling the same trick with the Argonians would be incredibly lame.

But we already know that there are different strains of Argonians. We've already heard from the Argonian Account about the Nagas, and those needle-faced brightly coloured tribesmen from deeper in the marshes.

But judging from the nature of Argonians (that curious Hist business), I don't think they are subspecies as much as different Argonian races altogether. If it makes sense to say that. I mean that their origins may have nothing to do with their being different; as in a lack of a common ancestor. While the Khajiit all were elves at one time before Azura's intervention, the Nagas may have always been Nagas, and the Morrowind Argonians always Morrowind Argonians, and so on.

But it's just a guess.

And http://www.tesfiction.proboards102.com/index.cgi?board=teslore&action=display&thread=214 is a link to Zelric's topic about the subject. Two pages long, not a big read or anything.

Thanks for the link.

@Proweler: While I would agree- and would like to see that it weren't so, that argonians had always been the same- the devs have, on the lore front, defected, and the argonians are different. This leads me to believe that they will be explained as different sub-species- which, frankly, I find more tolerable than no explanation at all. Better that they use their mistakes to develop lore and make the world seem bigger and more in-depth than that they randomly upgrade the world and shatter previous lore.

@Tom: The idea of them being different races (probably sixually compatible races, I would imagine) is an intriguing one, and one I actually find more interesting than the different sub-species theory.

The Argonians of Arena were human with green skin and red eyes and a general lizard face. Looking amazingly close to Oblivion actually.

Morrowind Argonians all came from the Slave Trade. The Slave Trade is the only way the beast races got into Morrowind. Therefore, it is safe to assume that the Khajiit of Morrowind are a sub-species taken for their desirability as slaves.


Look at Arena. And Daggerfall. Each time they changed. With the Khajiit they made the forms.

Now, looking into the Argonian Account, I have always been under the impression that there is a division of physiology among the Argonians. Those in the more Northern, more Imperialized sections of the swamp (those where people can penetrate, where the swamp becomes mountains) are the kind seen in Oblivion. Those of the southern or backwater lands of the swamps are of the Morrowind variety. Likely, the slave traders took ships down south and raided the marshes to acquire those slaves, as it was easier than getting them from the borders (which could be mistaken for an act of war.) Or, better yet, they conversed with their more Cyrodiilic Argonian tribes to the North, in a manner not unlike the Euroopeans did to many African's, and arranged for them to get slaves from the deep south marshes.

There is also mention of a winged Argonian, though I cannot recall where I heard this. I also heard once of Imperial Legionaires [censored] Argonian women, so I must say it is a yes on sixual intercourse.

As to the briasts, no idea. But I do recall once (memory fails and I can't remember where) that Argonian females are capable of a life birth, that the egg will hatch inside of them. This occurs only in colder climates, though, according to what I had read.

Your thinking of the Sarpa. They're mentioned in the Argonian Account.


I believe that's mentioned in the Argonian Compendium, so it's not proven, just an idea. Also, when the egg hatches inside them it's called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovoviviparity

I was just going to say what Teinaava said, but then, obviously, Teinaava said it. Knew this already.

@ Wierd...

The platypus and echidna are both found in a biome that is the epitome of reproductive isolation. These particular species, as well as the large amount of marsupials found there, either did not have to evolve, or took a different evolutionary path. Black Marsh is connected to the rest of Tamriel, and not floating out in the ocean like Australia. I'm not arguing against argonian live birth, since great-white sharks and some species of snakes have live birth, however, I am arguing against the possibility of the genetics matching enough to produce an offspring between a reptilian race and what are obviously mammals. (however, there is enough lore-related evidence of argonians laying eggs as to make that argument a moot point anyway) As I've said before, the briasts on an argonian female (IMHO) are non-functional, and are there more for mechanics than anything. This allows us, the player, to differentiate between male and female of this race. I doubt very seriously that argonian briasts have functional nipbles, if they have nipbles at all.

I feel dirty now. Talking about lizard nipbles.

Isolation can occur by more things than just geographical.

Isolation can occur as a result of such things as "the swamp is deadly!" there is a REASON why even CENTURIES after the annexation of Black Marsh, it is STILL not fully explored. that reason? People other than Argonians die horribly in there.


This still doesnt address the whole issue of "Lays eggs == Has a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloaca instead of a [Lady-Part] and rectum" issue.

It means that Argonian "Intercourse" would be....... A very different experience.

Exactly.

I was referring, in my post, about how the creatures you called to attention would be the exception, rather than the rule. I can see how blackmarsh would be reproductively isolated from the rest of Tamriel, which actually lends credence to the fact that they cannot interbreed. After all, monotremes can't breed with placentals. I do, however, agree that strange mammals do indeed exist in our world, but I still maintain that Argonians, being reptilian, would not be able to breed with mammals due to anatomical, physiological, and genetic reasons.

btw: one biology nerd to another... Kudos on the cloaca thing. I'm in total agreement. Kinda' parallels my non-functional briast thing. Egg laying creatures also lack nipbles. They don't need them. In short, argonians are far too... well... different to breed with other species of tamriel. Maybe other reptiles, but certainly not man or mer.

In Morrowind the female Argonian's did have a larger chest than the males, not extensively noticeable but certainly more pronounced around the briast bone than the males. A sort of pseudo-briast, if you will.

I noticed that, too. That's why I'm on about nipbles. They have briasts, but do their briasts have a "business end"? LOL. Sorry if it sounds a little crude, but I'm a biology teacher, and truthfully it is the nipble that matters when you're speaking of functionality of the mammaries. BTW: nipble, in this context, is not a dirty word...