Help untangling a mod conflict? : IV

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:34 pm

Hi folks,

I recently reinstalled TES IV and loaded a pile of mods into it (mostly FCOM stuff). I thought I had been pretty careful while I put it all together, even cleaned some of the mods that I suspected of being 'dirty,' triple-checked my bashed patch options, undeleted-and-disabled deleted references, and so forth. I loaded it up, and after a couple of last-minute troubleshooting tweaks everything seemed to be running great.

Then, I got outside. For some reason, the game just freezes and crashes when I enter certain areas (one notably being the fort between the Imperial City and Weynon Priory - the one with the Bandit). After a lot of testing (and an equally large number of crashes) all I've been able to tease out is that the crash seems to involve crossing the cell boundaries in certain areas.

I was hoping the experienced folks on this board could take a look at my mod list and tell me if there are any "known offenders" for conflicts that I should either do something to or give the heave-ho - or, for that matter, point me towards resources that I can take advantage of to resolve the type of conflicts that would be causing this issue.

My Load Order

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]04  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]05  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]06  Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm07  CyrodiilUpgradeResourcePack.esm08  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]09  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9a7]0A  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]0B  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]0C  CM Partners.esm0D  Toaster Says Share v3.esm0E  HorseCombatMaster.esm0F  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]10  DLCShiveringIsles.esp11  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]12  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 1.30]13  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp14  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp15  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp16  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]17  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]18  Fran Armor Add-on.esp19  Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp1A  Natural_Weather_HDR_by_Max_Tael.esp1B  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp1C  Natural_Water_by_Max_Tael.esp1D  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp1E  BEER_Inebriation.esp  [Version 1.21]++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]1F  Choices and Consequences.esp  [Version 2.02]20  DLCHorseArmor.esp21  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]22  SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp  [Version 1.11]23  DLCOrrery.esp24  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]25  SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 1.11]26  DLCVileLair.esp27  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]++  SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp  [Version 1.21]28  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp29  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]2A  SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp  [Version 1.30]2B  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]2C  Chin CatSuit.esp2D  SentientWeapon.esp  [Version 3]2E  DLCThievesDen.esp2F  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]30  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]31  SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp  [Version 1.30]32  KDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.esp  [Version 1.2]++  FCOM_KDCircletsOOOOptimizedNPCEquip.esp  [Version 0.9.9]33  ExnemRuneskulls.esp++  FCOM_ExnemRuneskulls.esp  [Version 0.9.9]34  Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp35  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]36  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]37  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp38  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]39  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3A  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.08a]3B  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3C  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]3D  Choices and Consequences - OOO.esp  [Version 2.0]++  ArmamentariumLLVendors.esp  [Version 1.35]3E  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]3F  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]40  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9]41  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]42  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]43  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life No Gates.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]44  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]45  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]46  Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]47  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]48  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]49  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]4A  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]4B  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp  [Version 1.39c]4C  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.39c]4D  ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4E  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4F  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]50  T.I.E4MODS.esp  [Version 0.41]++  T.I.E4MODSOOO+FCOM.esp  [Version 0.41]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]51  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]52  KvatchAftermath.esp53  Amen'thalas.esp54  Artifacts.esp  [Version 1.1]++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.0]55  (DC) Sutch Reborn.esp56  Dwarven Mines.esp57  Forgotten Tomb.esp58  FuseSnailRacing.esp59  goldenarrowarcheryshopfixedprices.esp5A  KingdomofAlmar.esp5B  kingdomofAlamar_OOO.esp5C  EiAmod.esp  [Version 1.1]++  EiAmod_ShiveringIsles.esp++  EiAmod_ChoicesandConsequences.esp5D  Spirit's Edge.esp5E  The Ayleid Steps.esp  [Version 3.4]5F  TheElderCouncil.esp60  TheElderCouncil_TempleOfTheOne.esp61  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp62  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]63  SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp  [Version 1.30]64  Lynges Thieves Highway - OOO.esp65  DLCfrostcrag.esp66  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]67  SM Plugin Refurbish - FrostCrag.esp  [Version 1.2]68  FrostcragRebornCobl.esp69  Knights.esp6A  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]++  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]6B  Choices and Consequences - SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 2.0]6C  TOTF.esp6D  TOTF-EiAE Patch.esp6E  The Lost Spires.esp6F  Mighty Umbra.esp70  Ungarion1TheWelkyndSword.esp  [Version 1.4]71  Blood&Mud.esp72  Origin of the Mages Guild.esp  [Version 6.1]73  The Mystery of the Dulan cult.esp74  TheNecromancer.esp75  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_MightyUmbra.esp  [Version 0.9.9]76  FCOM_Blood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_WelkyndSwordBlood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SlofsRobeTrader.esp  [Version 0.9.9]77  FCOM_OMG.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_OMGSRT.esp  [Version 0.9.9]78  FCOM_DulanCult.esp  [Version 0.9.9]79  Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp++  FCOM_EnhancedDaedricInvasion.esp  [Version 0.9.9]7A  Feldscar.esp  [Version 1.0.4]7B  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.5]7C  LostSpires-DarkForest patch.esp7D  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.2]7E  xulTheHeath.esp7F  SutchReborn-TheHeath patch.esp80  XulEntiusGorge.esp81  KvatchAftermath-EntiusGorge compatibility patch.esp82  TheNecromancer-EntiusGorge patch.esp83  SpiritsEdge-EntiusGorge patch.esp84  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]85  LostSpires-Everglade patch.esp  [Version 1.2]86  TheElderCouncil-FallenleafEverglade patch.esp  [Version 1.2]87  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.1]88  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]89  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.4]8A  ForgottenTomb-LostCoast patch.esp8B  AR.esp8C  ArcaneRising-LostCoast patch.esp8D  Shipwreck Home.esp8E  ShipwreckHome-LostCoast-SutchReborn patch.esp8F  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.2]90  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3]91  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.3]92  SentientWeaponII-AncientYews patch.esp93  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]94  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.3]95  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.3]96  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]97  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.2]98  xulPantherRiver.esp99  Blood&Mud-PantherRiver patch.esp9A  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.2]9B  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.1]9C  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.5]9D  Fuses Snail Racing Unique Landscapes Imperial Isle patch.esp9E  FuseSnailRacing-ImperialIsle patch.esp9F  xulBlackwoodForest.esp  [Version 1.1.0]A0  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]A1  Blood&Mud-CheydinhalFalls patch.espA2  TearsOfTheFiend-CheydinhalFalls patch.espA3  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0.2]A4  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp  [Version 1.0.1]A5  xulSnowdale.esp  [Version 1.0]A6  Feldscar+Snowdale Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]A7  FrostcragReborn-Snowdale patch.espA8  OOO-Snowdale Patch.espA9  EtInArkay-UniqueLandscapes Merged patch.espAA  DwarvenMines-UniqueLandscapes Merged patch.espAB  Castle_Seaview.espAC  CastleSeaview-SutchReborn-LostCoast patch.espAD  BarrowFields-Blood&Mud-Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]AE  (JQ) Fighters Guild United.esp++  FCOM_FighterGUnited.esp++  FCOM_UnofficialFranArmorAddon.esp  [Version 0.9.9]AF  NPC new clothes V2.6.esp++  FCOM_NewNPCClothes.espB0  Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.espB1  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]B2  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]B3  DD_JailShackles.espB4  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]B5  Vtoy.espB6  RealisticFatigue.espB7  RealSleepExtended.esp  [Version 2.5]B8  Mighty Magick - Core.esp  [Version 1.2]++  Mighty Magick - Skills.esp  [Version 1.2]B9  Mighty Magick - Magicka Pool Progression.esp  [Version 1.2]BA  Mighty Magick - Side Effects.esp  [Version 1.2]++  Mighty Magick - Sigil Stones.esp  [Version 1.2]BB  Mighty Magick - Restore Magicka Potions [OOO].esp  [Version 1.2]BC  MidasSpells.espBD  Midas OscuroGems.espBE  MidasSpellTomes.espBF  MidasMagicCompanions.esp++  Midas Betterholy.esp++  Midas Reduced Costs 3 Quarters.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Midas Creature Ingredients.espC0  FrostcragMidasLab.esp++  MidasSpells - MMR Patch.esp++  Midas PowDur3x.esp++  Midas Eldrich Power 4x.esp++  Midas Tigernolevel OBSE.espC1  Midas BeastFortify Fix OBSE.espC2  Pestilent Afflictions.espC3  RenGuardOverhaul.espC4  Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed Block and 250% damage.espC5  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag Reborn.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]C6  Corean_hair_for_Original_race.espC7  Capucines Character Expansion.espC8  Ice Elves and Wolf Elves.espC9  IDKRRR_C_race.espCA  Chocolate Elves.espCB  TSS Custom Companion  Template.espCC  Toaster Says Share Faction Recruitment.espCD  CM Partners.espCE  CM Partners Special NPCs.espCF  CM Partners NPC.espD0  CM Partners More NPCs.espD1  CM Partners Marker NPCs.espD2  CM Partners Extra NPCs.espD3  cmChocolates.espD4  Arren.espD5  Arren-EntiusGorge patch.espD6  companion_chocolate.espD7  SnowAndHarukoCMPartners.espD8  Midas CDM partners Beasts.espD9  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]DA  Real Hunger, Cobl.esp  [Version 1.6.1]++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]DB  Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp  [Version 01]DC  Bashed Patch, 0.espDD  Streamline 3.1.espDE  HGEC Futanari.espDF  companion_iceelves_esp_dependant.esp

Any assistance would be a big help, as my satiation with FONV is waning and I really need a new TES IV fix

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:47 am

Please use [ spoiler ] tag around the load order aswell to make the thread easier to read.

Best would be to just List Mods from the Mods-window in Wrye Bash and copy/paste the list there, that way we can see versions of many mods aswell.

Anyway, just had a very quick glance since I'm no expert on these things. I don't run FCOM myself (MMMforOOO instead, my computer won't allow me a full FCOM install) - but from what I've picked up from various threads here on the forum you should not use Frans Creatures addon with FCOM, since MMM handles that part. Another thing is the outdated Natural Weather, should replace that stuff with All Natural instead (includes Natural Weather weathers anyhow+lots more, and is being updated). Natural Habitat is the only part from that package you should use. TIE4MODS is very oudated and most likely doesn't work properly anymore, but again I'm no expert on that either. Harvest flora, make sure you have the standalone and not the one from OOO (much older). Load order looks quite fine to me, though Streamline below bashed patch isn't necessary anymore and if BOSS placed it there you need to update your masterlist and re-run it before rebuilding your bashed patch. Possibly move Deadly Reflex closer to the bashed patch aswell.

I *think* the main culprit here is that you use Frans creatures and MMM, but since I've never used them together I'm not sure - it's just something I'm quite certain I've read on these forums.

Hmm what else...
To cut down on esps, you can use SM Refurbished merged file since it looks like you have all DLCs (not available thru the OMOD install). DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB isn't needed anymore if you have the latest UOP Supplemental so can be removed (it's been merged into the UOMP). Finally, I don't see a MMM-Cobl in the load order.
Anyway, someone else can probably help you a lot more than I did - but it's a start.

Edit: Updated some stuff, so re-read if you read the post before seeing this edit

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:39 pm

Peste, thank you for the advice!

I have reformatted the mods list for completeness and readability, and I will test the suggestions for mod swaps and changes. I'll follow up once I have a chance to test how things run.

Thanks again!

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:50 pm

Peste, thank you for the advice!

I have reformatted the mods list for completeness and readability, and I will test the suggestions for mod swaps and changes. I'll follow up once I have a chance to test how things run.

Thanks again!

Ok, now that we can see the mod-versions I notice you don't have the latest http://www.4shared.com/file/144608444/c47efc89/ufcom.htmllrelease, it should say:

09  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]

So checking http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1146727-relz-fcom-convergence-and-ufcom/ making sure you have latest versions would probably be a good idea.

There's also newer unofficial patches than what you're using released here: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27710

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:38 am

I've started implementing your recommendations but so far the problem is still there. I'll keep working on it though, especially upgrading the unofficial patches and UFCOM as recommended, plus do some checking with conflict detectors to see if that specific problem area has anything in it I can resolve in the files themselves.

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:43 pm

You have a lot of mods in your list. Two pieces of advice I can give you...

1) Be careful about which mods you cleaned. Some mods, although look dirty, are not meant to be cleaned.

2) When you have so many mods like this you should start small and work up. Un-check all mods accept for FCOM and make that your baseline. Start checking mods little by little from there and you will eventually come across the culprit(s). Although it can be a long process it is the most surefire way to figure out the issue. Otherwise everyone else here is just guessing at what the issue could be.