:thumbsup:

You've also just inspired me to create a mage character in Oblivion. Really, I must try that, now. I've got some new ideas for spells that I swear I didn't steal from you.

agreed.

Not trying to start anything, but I think it (mysticism) is out because they seem to be paring down aspects of the game to make it more streamlined. Probably makes it easier to design across multiple platforms. (reduced the number of skills in OB so each attribute had 3 skills relating to it. Or reducing hotkeys from 10 to 8 (MW to OB) for those without a 1-10 keyboard.). Now we don't have birthsigns but stars tied to the 3 aspects of the game (combat, stealth, magic)

How to cast Chaos in Skyrim:

1: Charge frenzy in left hand by rapidly tapping the cast button, watching magic swirl around your arm while you charge it.
2: Have invisibility set in right hand, ready to go.
3: Finally stop tapping the frenzy spell, releasing the charged aoe spell sending everyone around you into a killing frenzy.
4: Cast the illusion spell from your right hand.
5: Profit.

My point here? You can still cast chaos, just use both hands. You in effect creat the spell in real time, instead of a menu. That is sooooo much cooler in my book.

Ok, point A) is that you are working with complete speculation so I could step around your point that way. How do you know AOE size is relient of charge time? how do you know you can cast AOE with one hand? But lets say you are right.

B ) that wouldn't work. By sending people into a killing frenzy THEN going invisble, they are still frenzied against you so the effect of it is pretty null. Furthermore, lets say one guy is on one side of the room and the other is on the other side of the room? How long are you going to charge the spell for (if this is how it works)? The idea of Spell creation at high levels is that you can create awsome things people DIDNT think of, tailored to characters with powers people didn't EXPECT to be realised.

C) Now do it for other suggestions. Try putting summon gauntlet in one hand, summon greaves in another, curiass in another, helmet in another, boots in another, and demora lord in another. Who are you, Dr Octopus? And what of restore health and fatigue slow over time in a "regen" effect? You telling me you can charge AOE and duration for one spell without effecting the other, using only one trigger, without increasing the strength too?

EDIT:

And D) you forgot stage 4.5: "????"

Not to me.
And its even beside the point.
That was just one example.

There simply is no way that the Skyrim spellsystem as described comes close to a small fraction of the possibilities spellmaking offers.
Not the least of wich the ability to name your spell.

I loved being able to create my own spells. There's no reason to take that away.

Pretty much everything is just speculation at this point. But we do know you can put a spell in a hand, and change how you cast it on the fly by different means of button pressing was talked about in the gi article on better combat. http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/01/24/skyrim-building-better-combat.aspx?PostPageIndex=2 I don't find it to much of a stretch to think that pressing gets you a fire ball, holding gives you a flame thrower, and rapid tapping gives you the epic fire aoe explotion we saw in the trailer.



Then go invisible first. Still don't see why you can't combine spells in real time to get things people didn't think of. How long to charge? Maybe you'll actually have to do some real time testing before you go into combat, instead of staring at a menu till the number looks right. Magic shouldn't be so exact that you can cast something to fill up 10 feet every time anyway.


No, that's just the system telling the player that the character's body can't handle the strain of trying to summon more than two things at once. You only have so much soul you can bind with stuff. Maybe enchanting a piece of paper will return, allowing players to make scrolls that can suruvive more than one use. Scrolls could act like a guide to help the body channel their magicka into multiple effects if they want more than one thing per arm. Better yet enchanting is a skill again, so it would be tied down to a skill as well. I dont know, and its not like this is perfect, but I'd much rather combine spells in real time rather than in a menu.

Casting spells and self spells would have to be different of course. Have a fatigue spell on cast in one hand and a healing spell on cast in the other. Holding the buttons down would cast a healing cone of reastore health and fatigue on target. That's what you're asking about right?



...I did, didn't I? Darn, I'm to lazy to edit it too. Ah well. Ya got me there. :unsure:

Well if there is no custom spells in the game, I hope they at least give us more than 8 hot keys this time.

Lets assume everything you are guessing at is right. That still makes it a very limited system in comparison. The Frenzy spell would have a handful of set effects accessed by hitting buttons in a certain way. Which is basically what they said. They called it dynamic and feeling more magical, but that is just ad speak. End of the day the real detail is that spells can be cast in a certain number of ways. So far we know of shot, trap, cone, PBAoE,(someone described 2 handed fire as a exploding fireball for its basic shot). So what 4-5 ways to cast a spell, you are somewhat limited to what a controller could do. It might not be mad tapping it might be A,X,Y hot hot keys to select spells, the D-pad selects the effect. Who knows the exact how the control is, end of the day though you have a variety of set effects from each spell.

Can someone without just parroting marketing speak actually explain what they think they are gaining from this that makes it worth losing spell creation. Its dynamic spellcasting isn't really informative, it just says hey they said it was new and shinny so therefore it must be good. Hell give me your wildest dreams of what you think it might be. What ResistanceKnight just described above is a single spell taking lets say 5ish effects. Other than a more fluid control set us though it doesn't seem to get me anything a improved hotkey system wouldn't, because madly tapping to get a AoE isn't really much better than me hitting X to go to the first group of possible spells and selecting the AoE frenzy from the D-Pad and then hitting the left trigger to fire it. It would probably be easier to use since all streams would be accessed by holding the trigger down, etc. But to me, giving up ridiculous versatility for a smoother controller set up is a crappy trade in a RPG.

If spellmaking is out, I'm pretty sure the summon armor spells are going to be in one single spell. Charging it will summon more armor for you or something...

Its still versatile though. You have to hands. Use em. I really don't see how we're losing anything in the slightest. So what if you can't name your spell, or you have to choose in real time how to use it.

The Kamehameha is still the kamehameha weither the name is called when you fire it or not. Give different names to combinations in your head. Pull out a pen and paper and write some of your favorite combinations down, give em a name, and then call the name out whenever you use it in game. Or just think of the name when you get ready to cast it.

I'd rather come up with spells in the real world anyway. No one has so much controle over their body that they can use the same amount of force every single time. Magic should work in the same way. You shouldn't know for a fact that this spell will always make an explotion 10 feet in diamiter. You should have a pretty good guess, but it isn't going to be so perfect every single time.

The ability to choose the way you use the effect feels more like magic than just choosing a different spell. Menu's should never be used if they don't have to be. Same with hotkeys. It should feel like you have the controle over magic, instead of choosing the type of tricked out pistol you're going to use in this instance. Because that's what the system has felt like to me in Morrowind and Oblivion. It felt like I was making different kinds of amunition for some highly advanced gun on my hand. Numbers and exactness took away from the fact that I was casting a unique fireball with a chance to drain speed.

Your willing to have custom reusable sheets of paper with scrolls on, but not spell making?? :facepalm: WHAT IS YOUR REASONING BEHIND THIS????

There were a couple of otherthings you said... about turning invisible first... and about AOE spells in the trailer... but I'm to tired... :snoring: Either way, I hope we have spellcrafting, I've given my reasons, and if not... well at least we have enchantable, reasuable sheets of paper as our back up plan...

I just want to make uber lightning spells. The thing that kind of worries me about the way they described the spells was that they were talking about the fire, ice, and lightning spells like their effects were absolutely set and there would be no others. I'd rather have the ability to make my own spells than have the ~85 that they talked about.

Just rememberd some of it now I've had some coffee.

You said not summoning full bound armor was all very well and good.

perrleease. I'm a level 100, dragon slaying badass that gandelf wishes he was, and I can't muster up the strength to summon anything more than some boots and gloves? What am I, a deadric gardener? All bow in awe of my bound weillies and marragoles!

You said about turning invisible first. Then I would become visible 1 second later (due to casting frenzy). seeing some limits here now, right?

You said about magic not being precise. Then do spellcrafting like you do enchanting. (but that doesnt mean with sheets of paper, thats just stupid)

You said about there still being no limit to possibilities. We've gone over that one enough times now...

You said about health regen spells being possible with the "on the fly" system. So, with one button, you can decide duriation, power, and AOE? No, you are limited for sure. Plus... ONLY TWO SPELLS THERE!! Unless your doctor octopus. Doctor octopus the deadric gardener. I can see it now, actually....

Finally, your whole point seems to be about combining spells on the fly. Todd Howard himself has made it very clear that combining spells will not be happening from the very early interviews. i belive it was the first podcast on skyrim, though I may be wrong. Cast one after the other in rapid succession maybe... but I can do that with hotkeys.

I think thats my sanity depleated, for tonight.

I guess I don't see the problem. In oblivion you could only have up to one one summon creature at a time. I've always wondered why it was different for armor and weapons, but at any rate...

Full conjuration of armor should be possible, I'm not saying it shouldn't be I guess. I still will wonder how it is possible, but I can see why one would want such a thing. Conjuration however is the problem child for the new spell system from what I can see though. The lack of different ways to summon things along with how to determing how long somethign stays summoned doesn't mesh well with the new system.

Having different combinations of conjuration armor spells to find in the game world would work well enough. Or just have a summon armor spell, and each time you improve your conjuration class (such as from novice to apprentice) you gain the ability to pick a perk that allows you to summon one more piece of armor of your choosing. A perk that grants the ability to stack different summon armor spells maybe.


Crap, sorry. My head was thinking chameleon when I was writing invisability. That's my bad. :sadvaultboy:

Anyway, its been said that we can cast spells at the same time. The spells would just act on their own. So you could cast fire and ice at the same time, just don't expect water. Also I think its fair to assume that casting has to wait till after an animation is done. So if all the aoe spells are the same as the fire one we saw in the trailer, casting another spell would have to wait. However, there may be a small delay before the attacks hit to make up for it or a way to cast an aoe from affar.

It really is all speculation, but it looked as if the mage with the fire aoe we saw in the trailer had both hands equipped with fire. If only one hand is equipped with fire, the animation and result may be different. If, I know...if, but if charging that fire for an aoe spell with only one hand is different in that after charging you shoot it instead of punching the ground then it isn't a problem. That punching animation may be to hard to pull off with all the different weapon types, so it may be only for pure mages who use both hands. And if you can cast the aoe from a distance then you have enough time to use invisiability before the spell hits and takes effect.

Even if I'm wrong, and that you punch the ground every time, going invisible after you get back up would still keep you save from the fray frenzy would bring, wouldn't it?


Hey, I'm trying to find some equal ground for everyone here. No need to call it stupid. The scrolls would mearly contain the effects and strength (or length depending on the spell type, both of which would be determined by your enchanting ablility and the soul gem used). The way you cast it would be up to the caster still. The paper would act like an enchanted guide to help you channel your magicka. Makes perfect sense to me. More sense than mages who have the ability to cast countless effects with one hand with absolutly no stress on the body what so ever.


And I really still don't see it. Most of the spells in the useful spell guide in the Uesp are just two effects. They'll still be useable. Very few go above three different effects, and when they do most of the time they are either making use of an exploit or are spamming different destruction types such as fire, ice, and lightning.


Power is going to be determined by either the spell or our skill. Either way, it still works. Duration and aoe are controled by the cone type. You constantly heal anyone in your cone. If you want to heal everyone around you and not just those in your cone then you charge it and then let it fly. No duration there, but there is a larger aoe. If you want durration, then you won't have as much aoe but you'll still have some. Odds are if you want to heal a group of people, you can fit them in your cone.



Here's the quote you're thinking of.



As long as the animations don't interupt each other, I think we will be able to cast two different spells at the same time. You're not combining them, just using two different ones at the same time.