You all know what I mean.

The Guard who knows what you've done, though not a soul saw you do it. The Horse you stole in the dead of night when no mer or man eye was on you.

The Guild member whom you accidentally struck whilst fighting enemies together in an ambush . . . and for the striking of whom you were expelled. . .

The Guild Member who died outside of some Ayelid ruin, leaving a masterless horse whom you took for your own,. . . only to be hammered for theft from a guild member. . . an already dead guild member whom you tried to save, had no part in killing, and whose horse was left both unguarded and unowned.

WTF? Have improvements been made in these areas? I certainlyhope so, but do any here know more?

who knows? why are you asking us?

I agree. I actually believe they said the guards are not like that anymore and you can rehide if you're found.

The majority of the people who are making the game? The OP doesn't know who knows, that's why he's asking the forum.


For an answer.

I know that these things were the bane of a players life (mine to sometimes) but realistically the work involved in sorting through the many variables of each instance of the above would be mind blowing.

Yes you hit a guild member by accident killing him, but how would the game know that it was an accident or if you meant it?

The horses you speak of are mainly guard horses and they are all tagged as a guards horse, if a guard is killed then realistically the horse should become fre to take yes.......but, that would mean each horse being assigned to a single guard, but as guards re-spawn then the horse would then become owned again.

Very confusing and very very scrpt heavy which inturn slows the game down.

But I 100% agree with the guards not knowing what you did if they did not see it or it was not reported should be implimented.

Yeah the Radiant AI had it's unradiant parts. This was one of them. No psychic NPCs! If they know, there has to be an explanation which you are given.
They should say etc "I saw you murder X yesterday!" or... "Y told me that he/she saw you murder X yesterday!" or... "We all know that you are the murderer!" if it's supposedly obvious.

This is the only one I disagree with you on the difficulty of solving. It doesn't seem to me like it would take a great deal of scripting difficulty to at least half solve this problem.

For instance, if you hit an ally once in between hitting an enemy which you are both in combat with then it would not count as attacking them.

However, apparently they have largely solved this issue with their 'magnetism' thing *apparently* so it might already be a nonissue.

I certainly hope this is so. Great news if it is.

The magnetized attacks might indeed be helpful in the friendly fire department. As to the horse. . . it wasn't even a guard's horse. It happened recently to a friend. A member of the mages guild in Bravil made a habit of going to Antuwyell to conduct studies. You all know the one. Well, in her game, he was killed by trolls before she could aid him. His horse was with him, and she slew the trolls before they attacked the horse. She took the now mageless and masterless hores . . . and boy was she surprised to receive notification that she was being expelled from the Guild for it. What the hell kinda Hogwarts Ministry of Magic foolishness is this? :verymad: What is the alternative? Leave the horse to be killed later by other monsters? Ridiculous really.

I agree I hope this is remedied, although I've let it go in the past as a kind of karmic response, all be it a rather speedy one.

At least I didn't get expelled for accidentally picking up a pillow like in the Balmora Mage Guild while I was the Archmage :shakehead:

But let's hope for less psychic guards, more logical behaviour overall and slightly more lenient guild rules in Skyrim

How does someone know in real life if you meant to kill someone when there was no evidence?

This could be solved by implementing a warning or reputation system.


If the guard dies, just remove any scripted instance of the horse belonging to the guard. The guard will respawn with a horse.

If you, yourself kill the guard, then it would be considered thief.


Oh yeah... changing some variables is extremely script intensive, but making dragons fly, land, and hunt you down is waaaay simpler.
[/sarcasm]
We're talking about a millisecond change to the horse's properties.

You're underestimating the capabilities of BGS and the Creation Engine.

Damn! That's messed up. Really. That is MESSED up. :brokencomputer: :swear: I apologize to you, and it wasn't even my fault.

I'd argue that if the victim clearly runs in front of the killer while the killer is attacking an enemy, that qualifies as evidence that it was an accident.

But regardless, as much as it pains me to acknowledge that there can be any benefit to adding auto-aim or target magnetism or whatever you want to call it to the game, it MAY help with the friendly fire issue, at least, I say may because we can't be sure until we've tried it, after all, Fallout 3 had a form of auto-aim too, and yet friendly fire was still a problem, so we can only wait and see.

As to the other issues, I'm definitely hoping that the psychic guards thing will be fixed, because it was kind of ridiculous, guards should only know that you commited a crime if someone was able to report it, and people should of course only report it if they could concievably know you commited a crime. If the AI is good enough, NPCs could potentially get suspicious if they notice items gone from their house, but they should only outright report you if they could concievably know that you stole them.

Also, I'd like to see sleeping in owned beds handled more like Morrowind, which is to say that you can sleep in them, as long as the owner can't see you, the game only stops you from sleeping in them if the owner sees you. Radiant AI could also be used for this to allow NPCs to potentally catch you sleeping in the bed after you've gone to sleep (Whereas in Morrowind, once you were sleeping, no one would care.) but certainly, I shouldn't get a message saying "You cannot sleep in an owned bed." when I try to sleep in a bed in the house of someone who is already dead.

^ 1st place for Least constructive post :trophy:

Second place goes to this post :ribbon:

How do you know that my pockets are stuffed with moon sugar? ... <_<

I hope that riding a random horse found out in the woods no longer deals a force ban from one of your guilds.

What I hated was when you were in a house/building in a city, your on the top floor, you are the master of stealth and an assassin, you sneak attack a sleeping person...then next thing you know your surrounded by guards trying to arrest you. They're either psychic, magic or have cctv everywhere.

Cyrodil is like 1984.

Really thoug, I hope they have a realistic system, but it still shouldn't be too easy to play a thief character.

It really just comes down to the balance of what is realistic and what is fun. There were many complaints that it was too easy to steal stuff/get away with murder in Morrowind, and for a game to be fun, there needs to be a challenge (or there is no feeling of accomplishment!). The devs agreed, and made it harder to get away with these types of things in Oblivion by beefing up the Guards AI, merchant AI (no selling stolen goods to them at all!), and general AI (if someone sees you getting on a horse you stole with no witnesses the night before, they report you). I'm not saying they did it perfectly, but they did it for a reason. I am confident that they will continue to improve this system.

Yeah, the beds thing was ridiculous. Also, people who like you or greatly fear you shouldn't object. That book dealer in Bliss in The Shivering Isles kept inviting me to her bed. . . I still couldn't actually sleep there.

I certainly hope so. A master thief or a master wizard who can become invisible would logically have an easier time getting into places and stealing things than a thief. Maybe heavier patrols of guards, but omniscient guards is silly. And the business about the horse whom was stolen when no one was about, or merchants refusing to buy your goods because. . . they give off an aura of stolen??? Madness. lol