It has been said before it should be said again..wait

anime six slave mod for Oblivion found on TESNexus you say. Hold on a minute, I'll be right back.



As I was saying, it was said before and I'll say it again. I don't care where an idea comes from if it is good use it, if it isn't don't.

Fair enough, those are all valid points. I think it's a little problematic to reduce it to taking direction from a design doc, as the developers as a whole are the ones who mostly contribute to that doc, but everything else still stands.


T'wasn't meant as a swipe towards the modding community or your team - I've used way too many of the community's fruits to mean it that way.

I'm not 100% sure how Bethesda functions, but typically your average developer (i.e. the guy actually working in the CS, making the models, writing the quests) isn't the one to write the document. The direction for what to do comes from the guys at the top, the team leads and the project lead and probably corporate to a degree. The amount of freedom they have depends on how important the thing is, among other factors. In other words, random house interiors are probably entirely up to the designer, while High Hrothgar is not. This is all based on informal conversations with folks in the industry, so don't kill me if I'm wrong.

Just to be clear, I don't think a developer's job is easier than a modder's. I do think that you you could make the case.


I'm not really offended or anything. The views on developers and modders in this community are very interesting, and I'll probably end up writing an essay on 'em sometime in the future.


I just like debates

Debates are the only reason I go on this forum. Especially the Steam ones.
Are you still working on the Hammerfell Mod for Tamriel Rebuilt? I'd love to help, but I'm afraid I can't bring anymore than dungeon designing to the table.

As for the OP, welp, it has been stated several times that the devs have been inspired by mods. Its not that they go looking for mods to implement, but rather they look to see what is out there and say "hey, this guys on the right track lets work with this idea".

Speaking as a designer that has created many unique designs in the last 30 years (some of them have made me money for years now because I was the first to think of them or the first to ACT on them) I have way more admiration for the gear heads (or programmers in this case) that can take a good idea and move it from the land of dreams to our reality!

Making a "good idea" actually work in the real world is the hard part becasue of all those annoying little things that are not in the dream world like friction and tolerance (or for programmers) such things as resource budgets.

Good ideas are a dime a dozen, good products that make it into reality are very rare.

As a moder who has had some of my ideas adopted by Bethesda, to the programmers and gear heads there at I say:

RESPECT!

You guys are amazing and I thank you for a game/product that has captivated me for 5 years, for best or worse changed my life, and may have possibly changed my vocation course as well.

Well the CS isn't that hard to work with. I don't think it would be very hard for me to create quests on the level of Oblivion's faction quests and such, even though I've never studied game design or anything like that, and I don't have a job in the industry. But I have dedicated plenty of time on learning how to mod.

Sure there are tons of people who see the CS and muck about, that's what you get when there's a free tool available for everyone. That doesn't make the 'serious' modders any less credible, or their work automatically inferior to what an Bethesda employee does in the CS.

StratonAce has done some amazing work on his mod The Deep, which sadly doesn't look like getting released any time soon (he lost all of his data during a Hurricane and had to start from scratch). He released some vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF9aw7hezgc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF9aw7hezgc

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1109504-wipz-the-deep/

He works for another developer and that probably keeps him too busy to fulfill his vision for The Deep. Maybe BSG should hire him and adopt some of his work for Skyrim.

True that. I used to follow his progress for quite a while.


I concur with the majority,that Modder's concepts are very usefull when used as inspiration,but not mimicked.
Take into consideration that most of the modders still operate on personal preference,so its natural for not everyone agreeing with their POV of the game.
But a ton of their ideas are groundbreaking if they were to be implemented in Skyrim.

I preferred Midas Magic's spell creation technique much more than Vanilla.Sure,some of the spless were farfetched if not weird,but the idea of gathering components to create a vast variety of spells i find much more compelling than just moving some sliders to measure the power only to end up with a spell you'll never have enough MP for.
Deadly Reflex was perhaps a bit too hardcoe-brutal for some,but the idea of finishers,locational damage,decapitations,and most of all elemetal damage was brilliant.Fire really burned,ice froze,all the way it should be.
MMM,OOO,FCOM and all its companions offered a HUGE increase in gameplay variety.No more boring 13 in a dozen encounters,anything could be around the corner,and not always meant for your level.Sometimes u could better run.Mods like this increased the variety and replayability of OB by a factor of 100.
And the list goes on:
Armor & weapon crafting,companions,weapon styles,having a body or a voice that actually fitted with that head of yours,cities that actually looked like they were a bustling place,...
The sheer content that modders have added to this community is massive.
NOT to take pointers from some of the pro's that wander these streets is idiocy.
So are statements like

Lol, he thinks plants are people

Yes, I feel the devs should consider and use SOME ideas they see modders put in the game. That being said, I'm not too much into overhaul mods as I really prefer a more gently modded game that more or less enhances the vanilla experience, but doesn't revamp the devs vision. Some of my favorite and must have mods that I could easily see added by the devs are:

Denock Arrow – hit the z key to denock and put your arrow back in the quiver.

Speedy Deposit – configure containers in an area to store your gear, and unload all your gear by casting a spell on one of the containers.

Portable bedroll – a simple bedroll you can carry with you on your adventures. Must have for the ranger character.

A nice Display/trophy hall with large display pedestals. (NOT those display cases OB had.) This was attempted with Battlehorn Castle, but it fell a long way short IMO, so I modded it to suit my tastes.

http://ypdesign.com/tes/battlehorn/

(I don't have a lot of stuff on the pedestals in these shots, but you get the feel of the place.)

Mannequins – a MUST have for the unique armor and weapons collector.

Enchanted arrows – why could you enchant every other weapon and clothing but not arrows?

Those are just a few of my fav's.

This is the type of mod I like as well. Doesn't change the game, but enhances it.

One good example is the key ring mod for Oblivion, which we saw implemented in Fallout. Now, obviously, I cannot say for certain if the Oblivion mod indeed inspired the FO3 folks to include a key ring, or if they had the idea before, or got the idea from somewhere else, etc... however, it is very possible they decided to include a key ring in FO3 because they saw the functionality of the Oblivion mod.

to all those saying "NO" - too late, they already have used ideas from extremely successful mods.


Archery says HI. Hopefully they take a little bit from DarnifiedUI and HotKey mods (for pc).

That is one exception I'd say just incorporate the whole damn thing! I can't play with out DUI. (TES and Fallouts.)

First of all please improve your Grammar before Saying something, and most of the modders arent dumb fans. they are very experienced in modding. First of all try modding yourself it isnt easy at all, and they got alot of ideas from modders that they have put in Fallout New vegas. and they were a big succes. I seem to guess your maybe a console gamer, anyways calling is a risky dumb long-shot isnt straight to the point atleast clearify your reason that their ideas shouldnt get included into Skyrim.

Mods totally changed my Oblivion gameplay...they improve the game so much, and add lots of new stuff. I played Oblivion since it came out, and without mods, I would probaby got bored with it...

Open Better Cities, Unique Landscapes,Midas Magic,OOO,MMM,etc...




I agree. I hate that kind of stuff ... and it is very sad that those mods are always highest rated... people actualy love that junk ... probably cus there is like 2 billion of asians who play Oblivion ....

I have a curious Question, was there a Bread Crumb or Trail Marker Mod in Oblivion.

What i mean is, lets say you are done with Skyrim and there are still places you never visited or you never went to each corner of the Map, then you tick the Mod to show Green for where you have been and Red for where you still could go or Explore.

Is there such a Mod for Oblivion and should there be a Mod for Skyrim.

I just hope the top un-modded draw distant is longer :\ (PC)

Also for those who say "MODS=BADS or any mods are horrible" umm do you know what game developers are.. paid modders thats all. Only difference between them and those who mod after the game is released is they create the tools and the engine to create a game that pleases the majority. The "modders" use the tools given and improve most if not all aspects of the game to make it better or add other things such as Playboy models

They do to an extent I would think, taking ideas that seem to hep overall gameplay, and not just do somthing cool, and work it into the game, or else take insperation from it. What I think whould be cool, is maybe for the next elder scrolls game, have a contest for the best modders out there. Have modders make one quest or somthing, 100% (as in good voice-acting, mouth synching for the voices, etc etc.), and send it to Bethesda. If they choose yours, then maybe you can make a sidequest for the next game to be put in the release or somthing. That would be a cool way to get som fresh ideas and perspectives, and some extra content, as well as involving the community.

Did someone say that mods were bad? :blink: _{Silly console gamers!}

Bethesda already has used mod ideas for Skyrim, as has been previously said.

Haha Obvious Troll is Obvious. If not, let me guess. You play on Xbox360 and begrudgingly look at Computer players with a seething jealousy/hatred. Third option, you are very very misinformed chap. Even Beth tilts their hat to some mods and gets inspiration from their community.

There are many good mods which can inspire Bethesda. But the great thing about mods is that there doesn't have to be a consensus, people can use what they like. Whether Beth uses ideas from modders or not, we WILL be in for a treat on 11.11.11. As long as they release proper mod tools, as they always do, nothing can stop us from making or using similar mods in Skyrim. :tes:



Don't turn this into a platform fight or the topic will get locked.

I think many people fail to realize that Bethesda uses the same tool as we do, although it may have a few additional features (nevermind the fact that they can go back and edit the CS themselves for more functionality). You can see it if you have the Making of Oblivion Documentary that was in the Collector's Edition of Oblivion, you see several shots of the CS and non of them really look different. The only thing we really can't do is change base features like adding more skills or attributes and stuff like that (you can make a "fake" skill using a Quest script and specially made items but it isn't in any way a hardcoded thing).

There are so many things that I see in Mods for Oblivion and I just thought to myself, "Why wasn't this in vanilla?" Things like throwing items, enchanting arrows, being able to wield a 1 handed weapon with 2 hands for more power but less speed, and that kind of thing. I'm also sure that any inspiration from mods is scrutinized, broken down to it's basic form, then rebuilt how they want it.

Geez, that mod sounds awesome! Link anyone?

I have searched for it in my Wrye Bash...http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25844