Yeah, I really did forget about the spells being available through scrolls! I see now that Phitt's idea is better, as usual :sigh: You should see what he's got me doing with Oblivion XP

Only as loot. There is a barrel type in the CS which always contain 2 torches and can only be found in dungeons (I bet you've found quite a few of them already, there are 132 in total in the game world), I added a custom leveled list to these barrels so they have a 50% chance to contain explosives (and at least 1 torch as well).

I'm just gonna write Telekinesis and I will let your imagination do the dirty work
The mod sounds good I like the idea and all, is it possible for you to make some remote traps? Explosive traps and something similar, at least tell me how to make them
Also this mod is good for those who stick to role-play

A round bomb like http://www.enzisblog.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/bomb_dynamite_candles_01.jpg ?

It will be cool to launch 1 or 2 of these round bombs from the the top of a hill, and see these roll away from you, while the enemies from the bottom chasing you but smack these bombs instead ! Just like a "bowling kaboom-strike"

Haha, oh wow, this mod is awesome. You rock. :goodjob:

I don't really care how new dynamite is, the Dwemer built a freakin' time-nuke capable mecha, remote detonators are crap compared to that. It's a bit weird how common they seem to be though. So many merchants sell them and I can't help but wonder who's leaving them all sitting around in dungeons... :blink:

Maybe you could put them in unique "lost dwemer stash" containers, and/or add a few artificer npc merchants to the game who study dwemer tech and sell their inventions on the side for research funds?

Other suggestions:

1) Explosives detonated by other explosives going off. So you can throw a huge pile down like you did in the demo video and not have to activate each one individually.

2) Explosives that can be stuck to actors. Turn your summons into suicide bombers! Terrorize your enemies (bombs cast demoralize effect on victims). Low confidence npcs will freak out and run away before going boom, sure to be hilarious!

3) A visible first-person view animation for clicking the remote detonator. Would be very satisfying to watch.

I never thought that the explosives were 'Dwemer' or something similar when I made the mod. They don't look like it and they're not supposed to look like it. It's just a pretty basic kind of explosive that the people in Tamriel invented. It's expensive and still relatively rare compared to magic or regular weapons, but it does exist and it is not a mythical artifact from Dwemer culture. It's similar to Blackpowder in medieval times. The remote detonator is maybe not so easy to explain, but you can always say there is a tiny bit of magic inside (like small pieces of Welkynd stones inside the explosive that heat up through a spell cast by the remote detonator...bla bla).

That's why quite a few people sell it and that's why you can find it in dungeons (in torch barrels, so it's basically an ammo depot). It never makes sense that so much stuff is lying around in dungeons (food, clothes, armor, weapons - all of it in perfectly fine condition), but without it looting a dungeon would be pretty boring.

1. That's pretty easy to do...but it would basically replace the arrow trigger explosive and make all explosives work like that (cast a fire spell and they will go boom). I like the idea though, maybe I'll give it a try.

2. That would require a lot of AI stuff. Of course you could simply add the explosive to an actor and let him explode after a while, but to make it look good (actor running around like crazy or summons targeting an enemy and exploding once they're close enough) would be pretty hard.

3. I'd like to do that as well, but I didn't have much time and just wanted to release the update. Never made a 1st person anim either, but I'll see whether I can add that.

My bad, I shouldn't have assumed they were dwemer in origin, in retrospect there was nothing to suggest they were... I just kinda assumed it, since they're centuries ahead of the rest of Tamriel's overall technology level. Ah well, who cares about (slight) lore discrepencies when I'm having this much fun blowing people up?! :hehe: :nuke:


Would it really be that hard? I don't know much about modding, but I figured the hard part would be getting the bombs to visibly stick to the actor. Making them flee could be done with a demoralize effect script, and most summons already bum-rush any enemies they see so no real problem there, you just gotta make em immune to the demoralize effect... Right?

Personally I don't think they're really that far ahead (except for the remote detonator). Maybe they look a bit too perfect, but basic explosives were already available during medieval times and even before. They have gothic style churches, perfect steel armor, nice looking ships and lots of other stuff (most of which looks more like early gunpowder age and not like dark medieval times) already and it's not like the mod adds machine guns. I know that lore enthusiasts probably won't agree, but I think they're not that much over the top to be completely implausible when compared to the rest of the game.



That's a good idea...don't think adding the effect will be hard either. Just an item with a looping animation that is added via force equip to the actor (only need to figure out a good slot for it, probably tail would be the only one that works - would make the tail vanish if applied to beast races though as far as I can tell). I'll see what I can do and whether it works out.

I think the yield of the bombs is the biggest problem for lore sticklers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you'd need a couple of kegs of black powder to get an explosion of that size and power. And they'd give off a lot more smoke too.

It's magic powder

As far as I'm aware, the technology of Tamriel is given by the gods. I'm not sure how the Dwemer fit in with that (I'm pretty rough on TES lore) but explosives certainly aren't lore-friendly. That's why, for the situations where you have a cluster of enemies unaware of your presence as you mentioned in the OP, you have AOE magic and enchanted arrows. Firing an arrow that causes a lightning surge for 6 seconds is pretty awesome! But that's the great thing about TES games. If you like to bend the lore for a more enjoyable playthrough, there's nothing stopping you! I'll just watch from the sidelines thanks :foodndrink:

It's an alternate world in an alternate universe. I don't see the issue. Surely technology wouldn't follow the exact same track it did here on Earth?

Besides, between the Dwemer, the Ayleids, magic, and other outside influences, I'd bet there's plenty of knowledge left sitting in archives about how to do a lot more than just make exploding sticks

This would explain why their technology level has been pretty much frozen in place for the roughly 6000 years or so described in lore. Aside from the Dwemer, no one is interested in advancing science in Tamriel. Maybe they've got the right idea, considering what happened to the Dwemer.


And those are all fine explanations and no one would question them, but Phitt explicitly said these explosives were just plain old mundane black power bombs, no magic or ancient lost technologies involved. Which is fine, I'm just saying if he wants to go for pure realism, the blasts should be a bit smaller and much smokier, or the bombs considerably bulkier.

My comment wasn't intended to explain Phitt's specific reasoning. It was intended to show that the citizens of Tamriel could have come up with it on their own, based on other knowledge they might have acquired. Creating dynamite may seem a bit advanced, but consider that many things we have here in the real world were discovered by accident, or invented as the result of studying such an accident. Sometimes resulting in a technological advance that doesn't seem to fit.

So they're plain old mundane black powder bombs. Being rolled into sticks with fuses attached wouldn't be a big leap. Maybe the yield they produce was one of those accidental advances?

I'm sorry, but this makes as much sense as people not reproducing themselves (you know what I mean) because the gods don't like it. If that is really what lore says it is certainly in my top 3 list of the most idiotic TES lore facts. They don't invent new things because the gods give them their technology? Seriously? And how do the gods stop them if they invent something new? Kill everyone? Anything else I need to know? They only herd sheep because the gods give them beef and pork? They don't have children because the gods create them as advlts? They don't have toilets because the gods make them not produce any feces?

To me that sounds more like an extremely weird and lazy explanation for the lack of technology advancement in the TES universe. Humans make new inventions and there is no way to stop them. Even if I was a lore enthusiast I would skip this part of lore, otherwise I wouldn't be able to take any TES lore seriously (probably the reason why I'm not a lore enthusiast, would only cause headaches).

EDIT: My little rant is not directed towards you so I hope you take no offense (and I have no problems with lore enthusiasts either, to each his own).



I didn't say that it is blackpowder, I just said it could be something similar to blackpowder. You have mushroom plants and stuff like that in Tamriel, so you never know what kind of substances are available and what their chemical properties are. Making a basic type of explosive that is more powerful than an early blackpowder bomb is not that hard if you know how, not even with rather limited tools. And I completely agree with Arthmoor in that regard:



In the end everyone has to decide on his own whether he thinks it fits into his game or not. I just don't think there is a real reason why it should not exist. It is not a huge leap in technology when you look at all the stuff they got and I already said what I have to say about the lore aspect.

Mod updated to v1.2. Added flashbangs and an explosive barrel. Also fixed some small oversights and one relatively large oversight - in v1.1 the explosion sound effect was in the wrong folder and thus wouldn't play. Additionally I balanced the prices for the explosives and slightly increased the chance to find them in a dungeon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MESbnkp5MfI

A definent download,should work well with deadly reflex 6's throwing system when i get it working for me.

Hi Phitt,

I do not see any logic in criminalising use of explosives. If so then use of area effect spells should be a punishable offence too.

BTW, why some think that use of BP is on principle questionable in a fantasy world is beyond me. It may be not lore correct for TES but BP is a fairly simple alchemical product well known from medieval times which are the paradigm for most fantasy litterature and games.

Good work. While at it you may as well add shrapnel mines and player settable traps.

Regards, Haldir

The problem is the setup. Spells are part of the game's core mechanics, the explosives on the other hand are completely scripted and there is a long delay between igniting them and the actual explosion. Making explosions only a crime if a. the explosion harmed an innocent person and b. you were seen while igniting the explosive and c. the person(s) who saw you is/are still around and alive is very, very hard to achieve and bound to cause problems and bugs. While I'm sure it would be possible it's (in my opinion) not worth the effort and scripting overhead it would require. The simple crime detection system I implemented is maybe not perfect, but it's better than guards doing nothing if they see you ignite a bomb in the middle of the IC market district.

EDIT: There is also the problem of common sense, which is impossible to implement into Oblivion's AI. If I ignite an explosive in the middle of the market district, would the guards wait till it exploded and possibly killed people before arresting me? That would be pretty stupid. There is no way to tell whether you are in a location where it is dangerous for innocent people to be affected by the explosion or not.

You're right in that common sense is impossible to program into Oblivion npcs, but maybe it is possible to fake it via a few scripts? Making it a crime to light bombs inside a city is a no-brainer. Even if there are no innocents near it, it is still disturbing the peace and in a realistic world would cause a lot of property damage. Though honestly, area-affect spells really should be illegal to cast in cities for these same reasons, but then most magic spells inexplicably seem to be exempt from the law in Cyrodiil, where it is totally legal to mind-control a guard and force him to kill innocent people. :rolleyes:

Of course, setting off bombs in dungeons should be fair game as long as no good npcs are hurt, wilderness is a bit trickier though, there are a few villages and towns outside. Maybe a proximity based crime detect script? Light a bomb too close to, say, Weye or Border Watch and you will rightly be reported to the authorities as the mad bomber you clearly are.

Another idea, what if it were possible to disarm a lit bomb? Black powder bombs historically used slow match style fuses (hemp or flax cord soaked in potassium nitrate to make it burn slower and resist being put out), so it should be possible to stop the explosion by cutting off the lit fuse. This would require quick reflexes and manual dexterity (high speed and security required to succeed) and balls of steel and desire to protect others before self (high confidence and responsibility required for npc to attempt it). Having a small sharp blade like a dagger or calipers/shears would certainly help too.

Just an idea I'm throwing out there to use if you like, I won't cry if you don't wanna do it. Mod's awesome already. :goodjob:

Just wanted to bump another awesome and give my thanks to Phitt.
Now, would it be possible to increase explosives damage? I'm not sure your Phitt's Phighting Phixes affects it, as remote explosive did only 220 damage to my test npc.
And if it's possible to make arrows with explosives on top so they explode on contact. Would be a blessing for stealthy types.

'Only' 220? A level 21 marauder has 219 health, a level 29 bandit has 216 health. I think that's very powerful already. And I didn't want the player to blow up Umbra or Frost Giants. But if you want you can increase the damage. Just open the mod with the CS and look for spells called 'PTBombX'. They have a fire damage effect. Increase that effect if you want more bang for your buck. By default in v1.2 the bombs have 120 damage (three sticks), 200 damage (five sticks) and 280 damage (seven sticks) as well as 360 damage (barrel). The remote explosive will do 280 damage, so maybe the NPC had some kind of fire/magic resistance?

Arrows would be nice as well, just have to see how to make them explode on contact (and not only if they hit an actor). Of course they would need to be less powerful than the bombs or it would be overkill.

I haven't really checked the hp of other mobs, my test npc had 2000 health to test various types of damage, and I thought it was low since my sneak attack did 150-170 damage. I prefer deadly combat, 2 or 3 hits and dead ^^. Thanks for the guide on how to increase it, I guess FCOM adds lots of resists to various enemies.
And once again, exploding arrow would be super-awesome for groups of weaker enemies.

hahaha this is f***ing crazy! LOL

The videos are amazing, it seems really funny to play and to blow enemies up, although it doesn't seem to fit pretty much the lore and blah blah... hehe, no, seriously, the idea is amazing but from a western point of view it's like there's a slim gap between explosives and powder guns, wich seems just too much for Tamriel, at least for me, although that doesn't have to be that way (chineese people used powder or similar substances for centuries and developed fireworks but did not developed fire guns as we know them), so I guess mines are cultural prejudices, but once again, it would be hard to understand how tamrielic people developed such powerful explosives and did not developed fire guns... so I'd really like if you'd implement some sort of artifacts less 'explosive' and more 'incendiary', something in the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_fire or so. It'd be nice also if each type could be optional via ini settings or some other method (really that satchel charge and the swat flash grenade are too much for me). Any plans on expanding this further?

oh, if I can make another request, it'd be nice too if as a requisite to ignite the fuse the player would have to be holding a torch, not only for realism, but also to make him/her easier to detect by enemies so it has to be used with more care. It'd be cool too that firing a fire spell on an unignited explosive would make it explodes instantly, as well as throwing an explosive directly into a fire spot would make it explodes right away, or dropping a lit torch near an explosive stick, etc... just to reflect the dangers of playing with such unstable substances

keep it up!