Technological Advances.. : V - Skyrim

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:57 am

The problem with TES is that they really only show people using magic to kill things. Theres little to no practical uses for magic in the games. This can led you to believe, at first glance, there are no practical uses for magic in TES universe. If the devs want to use magic as an excuse for not having huge scientific developments then they need to add more examples to explain why people prefer to use magic instead of science. This would not only help explain magic's role in TES it would also make the game more immersive, because you would get to see people using magic to better there every day lives, which would feel cooler then just having it implied that it's happening.

i gotta say i agree with this if the devs want magic to seem like an adequate replacement for technology they need to show some practical applications like perhaps a mage levitating heavy blocks to help construct a castle or summoning some daedra to help with the construction (if levitation isnt in) and i say take a few tips from the dwemer (they used magic to animate there machines specifically enchantment) maybe have a few cranes powered by steam heated by a magic flame could help with building construction

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:39 am

I think steam power could be ok, but only for the Dwemer.

Erm, what? You mean finding functional steam powered items salvaged from dwemer ruins? Because they already had/have steam technology. I wonder if we'll be seeing those robot guards around from dwemer ruins...

And about water wheels, what are they actually going to be used for? Pumping wells? Milling grain? Raising drawbridges? Water wheels are cool sources of mechanical power, but they are means, not an end. So I wonder what we'll see as their functions.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:31 am

Skyrim, to me, looks like the dark ages. if Oblivion was the Romans (ae architecture and guard armor), u may notice that the dark ages began when the Roman Empire began crumbling and falling apart. Id much rather have my nords looking apon the old empires mighty buildings and thinking "that must have been a good time to be alive, i can barley imagine the amount of power the old empire had..." I mean, skyrim looks dark-age kinda gritty, dirty in its feal. just how i look at it i guess :shrug:

Edit: ops, didn't see that post above me... Well mine is different enough to warren my 2Cents

I think that is exactly the point of the Dwemer ruins and the Ayleid ruins. An ancient civilization that kind of puts the present to shame as far as culture or technology. So it's not a new concept for the fall of the Empire, as many civilizations that fit this trope have done so already.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:38 am

Erm, what? You mean finding functional steam powered items salvaged from dwemer ruins? Because they already had/have steam technology. I wonder if we'll be seeing those robot guards around from dwemer ruins...

And about water wheels, what are they actually going to be used for? Pumping wells? Milling grain? Raising drawbridges? Water wheels are cool sources of mechanical power, but they are means, not an end. So I wonder what we'll see as their functions.

well exactly what you said pumps mills and better raising of drawbridges or maybe in that one dwemer inspired city there may even be working animunculi that the guards or the local mages have forced to serve the cities needs. and for future reference the dwemer achieved there level of technology via enchanting

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:22 am

I would support technological evolution in a BethesdaSteampunk game. In fact I would rather enjoy it.

For Skyrim, I suppose I will accept whatever technology the devs feel is necessary for the game.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:27 am

but yeah i am inclined to believe these times in tamriel is there equivilant to our dark ages save it for elder scrolls 6 i say although i dont know how theyl make it work with the odd geography and climate of the black marsh.( hehe see what i did there? :hubbahubba: )

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:18 pm

well a windmile is confirmed. just a matter of time now until more complex things. but with magic... who needs technology???

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:18 pm

not really i dont like tech in games like TES windmills are only there so they can make an adoring fan reference anyway xD

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:30 am

well a windmile is confirmed. just a matter of time now until more complex things. but with magic... who needs technology???

Who needs technology? Let's ask the Nords that built the waterwheels/windmills, what do you think they would say?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:39 am

I was wandering though seeing that has been steam-power before, of which is only in Oblivion which is the Hist Sap Machine in the Blackwood company, that shows at least some advances in technology, so it does seem rather reasonable for there to be at most some minimal advances on things like machinery.

You do have a point,but i like the feel of TES the way it is. I'm more a fan of the medieval/swords and bows era,as apposed to the guns era. I think thats the point actually regarding tech progression,i think people will worry it will introduce guns,and thats a big NO around here.....and i agree with it. If it doesn't advance too far and doesn't involve guns,then it's maybe worth looking at,within reason.

I believe skyrim is lower tech anyway,and that pleases me.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:29 am

I had never seen anything close to a carriage in cyrodill, people travelled by foot or on horses. Then the mills, these indicate there's been a lot of advancement.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:22 pm

No. Whats the point of making a steam engine when you can just make a magic one.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:43 am

....guys....windmills carriages, boats, ships galleons, Cannons, irrigation, bastilae, towers, draw bridges, geared doors, weights, pullies, dock lifts, plumbing etc etc have ALL been in the series for the longest, these are not new...please understand this.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:55 pm

I want at least some advancements in the large cities.
None in villages and such to keep the medieval atmosphere from Oblivion.
And I would really love to see a quest-line or 2 about some crazy hermit scientist who has been reclusively experimenting with non magical technologies and needs someone to test them, like some awesome weapon on a powerful monster.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:43 pm

Well I say no. After all there was very little technological advancement from 0AD to 1600 AD. It's only recently there's been substantial progress.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:50 am

....guys....windmills carriages, boats, ships galleons, Cannons, irrigation, bastilae, towers, draw bridges, geared doors, weights, pullies, dock lifts, plumbing etc etc have ALL been in the series for the longest, these are not new...please understand this.

Are these things the relics of a bygone era in which magic did not exist? Or am I the only one that thinks people engineer solutions to problems regardless of the presence of magic? I feel like I'm going nuts here. I will try to look past my, perhaps facetious, opinion and pretend like stagnant technology is OK. Because in the end, it doesn't make the game less fun, but trying to defend technological innovation in TES is definitely not fun, despite my conviction that magic and technological progress can coexist.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:39 am

You can witness all these in BOOKS in the game as well as in game since Arena....this isnt a society completely dependandent on magic, not everyone can do magic and its not exploited to the point were every city is built by levitating blocks, they do things normal just as any society magic is a perk, a fortunate & unfortunate aspect of mortal life on nirn.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:55 am

Like healing people and curing diseaese, both of which are seen in-game? :blink:

Ok you can kill people and then heal them. What else? Nothing. It's doesn't make any sense that magic would replace the need for science unless you can do more. The thing is that they can do more, you just don't get to see it. TES keeps way to much knowledge of the series in the background, it's one of the only flaws of the lore in the games. No more random books that give little bits of information that usually doesn't relate to anything. They need to actually show that stuff.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:01 am

Surprisingly enough civilization does NOT advance automatically with time.

It advances when there is a suruplus of wealth and food. Look at Europe during the middle ages, very little progress. Look at Africa over the last 200 years, very little progress (of their own).

Time /= Advance. Not even in the real world. I would fully expect that during a time of chaos and civil strife in Tamriel, technology would not be moving forward.

I apologize and give any due credit if someone has said this already before me. I skipped to the last page.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:41 am

Surprisingly enough civilization does NOT advance automatically with time.

It advances when there is a suruplus of wealth and food. Look at Europe during the middle ages, very little progress. Look at Africa over the last 200 years, very little progress (of their own).

Time /= Advance. Not even in the real world. I would fully expect that during a time of chaos and civil strife in Tamriel, technology would not be moving forward.

I apologize and give any due credit if someone has said this already before me. I skipped to the last page.

Very true. But let us not forget that technology is not sedentary... technology spreads and is shared across cultures and civilizations. So despite Europe descending and losing its technological heritage, the Middle East arguably contributed some of the most important technological and scientific advancements of the time, which didn't stay in the Middle East

So Skyrim has the chance of adopting the knowledge of surrounding tribes/cultures and putting that knowledge to use for profit.

There are plenty of precedents of technology spread, rather than internal innovation. The Akavir influence for example. There was give and take on both sides.

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:39 pm

Ok you can kill people and then heal them. What else? Nothing. It's doesn't make any sense that magic would replace the need for science unless you can do more. The thing is that they can do more, you just don't get to see it. TES keeps way to much knowledge of the series in the background, it's one of the only flaws of the lore in the games. No more random books that give little bits of information that usually doesn't relate to anything. They need to actually show that stuff.

Guess you havent been playing a mage much then, or read a lot of in-game books.
A lot of people happen to adore the books in TES, so I dont think wanting them out will help.
The uses of magic are myriad and extensive.

And so is the use of technology.
I actually always get a little depressed at people calling it a medieval game.
Its not medieval and has nothing to do with medieval.
Technology wise they are quite advanced and seem to be at the point we were just before the industrial revolution.
I just dont think one of those will ever happen, as magic takes care of a lot of the things technology is handy for, so there simply is no need for it.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:58 pm

I just dont think one of those will ever happen, as magic takes care of a lot of the things technology is handy for, so there simply is no need for it.

People don't usually NEED a better mousetrap, but it doesn't stop people from trying to invent one.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:03 am

Guess you havent been playing a mage much then, or read a lot of in-game books.
A lot of people happen to adore the books in TES, so I dont think wanting them out will help.
The uses of magic are myriad and extensive.

And so is the use of technology.
I actually always get a little depressed at people calling it a medieval game.
Its not medieval and has nothing to do with medieval.
Technology wise they are quite advanced and seem to be at the point we were just before the industrial revolution.
I just dont think one of those will ever happen, as magic takes care of a lot of the things technology is handy for, so there simply is no need for it.

I didn't say I want books to go. I said books are extremely vague and they don't substitute actually having people talk about the lore. For how much they worship the Nine divines in TES you can't really get much info about them form people. In fact they don't really even talk about them that much. All there is is small references in books. We're supposed to actually be part of the world, and it really brakes immersion if you don't see people talking about the lore on a retinue basis and doing everyday things.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:56 am

People don't usually NEED a better mousetrap, but it doesn't stop people from trying to invent one.

But even if they did, doesn't mean they would. Like I said before, up until the Industrial revolution, technological evolution was very limited. So while it's plausible that technology would advance, it's at least equally plausible that it would remain essentially the same, and since I prefer that, I don't think they should do it.