Yes, well that's what happens when you're quickly browsing. I'm sure my acknowledgment and apology was sufficient and don't see what it gains by a second opinion, no offense.

I own Fallout 1 & 2 & Morrowind [& Tribunal & Bloodmoon]. I'd pick Fallout as my favorite, but if I could only have just one game (picked from these), it'd be Fallout 2, not Morrowind.

*Actually I consider Planescape:Torment the better RPG, but Fallout 2 the better game.

I don't know if I like that way of level scaling...especially because I've planned (or had, in any case) my char to first explore a lot before beginning any quest or even going to any city. That means that if I do that, I'd "unlock" a lot of dungeons at low levels. And will they stay in that way the rest of the game with that char?

I'm not sure I like it...

You don't have to do any quests to level up. I think it's safe to say that if you actually explore the dungeons, rather than stepping in and leaving quickly, you will start leveling up very quickly. Especially because you level up about twice as fast as in Oblivion.

You're right that it probably won't be a big issue....but I still see the possibiltiy of "breaking" the game by visiting all the dungeons just to have a look at them, and the enemies, and then leaving to find another. If it is true that there are no high level preset dungeons, someone could do just that.

I certainly hope it is a mix of the level-locking dungeons and a bunch of preset higher level ones. Because if even 2/3 of them are level-locking, I think many people will be upset at the lack of enemy variety, and it will be silly that the world basically conforms to you. To me, that's the same problem with the bs OB had with the entire world getting stronger and different because you leveled up. Both would be the same issue, one would just be the lesser of two evils.

They can avoid that by having roughly half of the 130 dungeons preset as special leveled dungeons that are locked to a certain level of enemies no matter when you visit them. That will leave half like OB's, except with level-locking, and the other half will be a mystery until you get there. I'm not sure they will be implementing anything like that half and half scheme, but I'm sure most people would be happier if they did. I know I would see that as a better system than MW's or OB's because it compromises with concepts from both games, making for a more varied experience.

Yeah, I agree and I definitely think the system should be a mix of Fallout 3's system with OOO. Every dungeon in the game would have a range of possible levels for the enemies and the loot, say 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31-40, 41-50, 51-60, and 61-70. The level would lock at the closest number to your current level, so visiting a 41-50 dungeon at level 20 would lock it at 41, but visiting it at level 60 would lock it at 50. Then the way they would assign the level ranges to the dungeons would be (at least partially) by how far you have to travel into the wilderness to reach it. The farther off the beaten path, the more dangerous the territory is. Makes sense to me at least.

What if you enter then leave every dungeon you come across without even fighting at all

There could be quest-specific enemies that scale with your level as you are when you take a quest. For instance, a good candidate would be the lich boss in Miscarcand in Oblivion after you pick up the great sigil stone. Or, they could simply keep some of the more important questline dungeons off-limits until you take the right quest.

I agree this sounds terrible, basically sounds the same as Oblivion, any dungeon you enter will have scaled monsters...unless you leave it unfinished?!?! Come on now!!!

Yeah but, there's still something a little off with that. Why I don't mind lower level dungeons making me feel more powerful, I don't want to be able to predict what I'm fighting every time. Maybe those low lvl goblins left and now low lvl wolves have taken over or got cleared out by high lvl ogres and now they live there. What I would like to see is a semi-random or completely random scale on some dungeons to keep the spark of actually not knowing what's going to be there. I intend on playing with one character for a very long time and I don't want to be able to predict on what's going to be there in every dungeon.

this is how it works

Lets say that you are level 30 and you decide to go exploring a random cave in the game. The monster in the cave can range between 20-30 and depending on you level at the time will determine what level will be locked in the cave. Lets say that you are level 5 and you go to a dungeon has the levels 50-60, the dungeon will lock at the minimum 50 because you don't make that range of levels

Um, why would you do that? Are you just looking for things to argue about? And to answer your question, it's not like every dungeon is going to be low leveled. If you did that (for whatever reason) you still have the high level dungeons be high level, sure all the 10-20 dungeon would be level 10, but all the 40-50 level dungeons will still be level 40, a fairly high level, so you still will have some challenging high level dungeons to visit until you're a high 40's level with your character before they get "easy".

They way this is is a mixture of both Morrowind and Oblivions systems

(these figuers are not exact but just used to give an example)

150 dungeons

3 leveled lists of 1-10, 11-25, 26-45

The level that the dungeons are set at depends on the level the player is when they first enter, and then respawns stay at that level for the game.

If you are a player at level 1 then 50 of the dungeons will be level 1, 50 will be level 11 and 50 will be level 26

If the player is level 50 then the level 1 dungeons above will be level 10, the level 11 dungeons will be level 25 and the level 26 dungeons will be level 45.

They are leveled dungeons but have a min and max level they can be dependant on the player level.

This way the player can still be challenged in later dungeons but feels like they are getting stronger as there will be some dungeons that stay lower level.

This also means that the enemies in the dungeons will never replicate the Deadra weapon wielding begger bandits of the oblivion days.

I personally kinda like this idea but hope that the dungeons on the higher leveled lists are the remote out of the way ones and the lower level list are the ones that are a stones throw from a town.

Have a fast character and run in passing all of the enemies and grab 40th lvl loot

Nobody attempted to 'fix' it for Fallout 3 so it seems to me this system is fine.

Needs 30-40

People look for challenges at high levels,thus diss Morrowind's system,but I see needing to have hard time with a bunch of bandits or guards when I have kicked Dagon's or Alduin's @ss not as a challenge,but as an annoyance.
Perhaps the way of challenge should change for high level players.So you should be able to "cut through a dungeon in a single swing",but you should start hearing rumors of "super-level" ancient beasts,legendary warriors,or be challenged by some,maybe also by groups of high-level warriors...Though all of these sound like doings of mods,rather than a vanilla game...But in short,more Gaenors...

Morrowind
3
7
15
25
40

Skyrim
1-5
5-10
10-20
20-30
30-50

Just take the averages.
3
7
15
25
40

As long as the ranges are like 5-10 and not 1-50 then you don't have to worry about level scaling. It will almost feel the same with Morrowind at a perceptual level. The chance of a cave to become easier than its average is on par with it becoming harder. :hubbahubba:

I want Stalker/Mount&Blade like dynamic content though where NPCs and monsters actually migrate from place to place for real. Where there are occasional fights happening all the time which you can join for either side. Where you can stumble upon the same hideout you visited earlier with bandits just to discover it is overrun by pirates now. Maybe in next game. Dynamic economy gives me hope.

The only thing that worries me is that this so far is only announced to apply to dungeons. I think NPCs should have cap to their levels and not grow infinitely stronger with you also. Exterior spawn points should also have a level range similar to dungeons also, say spawn point near tree x and waterfall z is a 1-10 spawn point for the WHOLE GAME and spawn point near rock w and ruin y is a 40-50 spawn point for the WHOLE GAME.

Also, I personally think it would add a lot of believability to the game if you have moderate chance of encountering low and mid level enemies in high level dungeons/spawns, and an extremely low chance of encountering mid to high level enemies in low level ones that aren't quest-related at the time. So if you go into a level 40-50 dungeon, you can still encounter (OB examples) rats, wolves, ghosts, trolls, and clannfears in the dungeons with your liches, minotaurs, and storm atronachs. In the low level dungeons that mostly only have rats and imps, you could then still have the best treasures in them sometimes guarded by a Troll or an Ogre, and you just don't do that room. I loved it in MW that I couldn't always 100% a dungeon I went into, it made it feel like really exploring. One of the worst things about OB was that all the enemies you encountered at any given time were the same levels, and even though it will be location specific in Skyrim, its still annoying to have one dungeon have all the same level of enemies instead of a variety.

It's good as long as we can't fast travel around the world instantly ala oblivion, you won't enter a high level dungeon anyways at low levels because they'll probably be guarded by some pretty mean big leveld monsters. And even if you manage to enter one at level 1, it'd still lock at 25 or 30 and not 1.