KiNASuki: I suppose next revision I can package an optional .ESP file where persistent summoning is the default behavior.

Also, with regard to the magicka drain. The values are actually derived by a calculation I worked out. For example, say an Apprentice creature costs 45 mana to cast, and lasts 40 seconds. Having a default mana drain of 45 wouldn’t quite make sense, as it would be costing that every second they were kept past their expiration, which in practice was too excessive and made it so sustained summoning was kind of pointless (you’d run out of mana too fast to make it worth it.)

I can’t remember the exact function I used but it was a balance between the base cost to cast that summon (taken from Oblivion’s default settings wherever applicable) divided by the default number of seconds the summon would normally last (also taken from vanilla), then multiplied by an amount relative the class (Apprentice, Journeyman, etc.). Sometimes its a little more, sometimes less, generally balanced to how powerful the summon in question.

Really, you have to experiment with the values to see for yourself. My best suggestion is to summon something with the default values unchanged, let it expire, then observe how severe the mana drain is for keeping that one creature alive. Then, if you find it is too severe a penalty for your liking, switch to the next level down:

set phiSustainMult to 0 - This sets the cost for sustaining summons to the default.
set phiSustainMult to 1 - This would reduce the sustained summon penalty by 25%.
set phiSustainMult to 2 - This would reduce the sustained summon penalty by 50%.
set phiSustainMult to 3 - This would reduce the sustained summon penalty by 75%.
set phiSustainMult to 4 - This eliminates the penalty altogether. (Persistent until killed/dispelled.)
set phiSustainMult to 5- Summons dispel as soon as the timer runs out (stock Oblivion behavior).
set phiSustainMult to (anything else) - Same as if set to 0.

None of these effects the initial cost to cast them however.

Also, setphinofade to 1 will prevent them from turning see-through when their timer expires. This is generally only useful when using phisustainmult at 4 (persistent) since otherwise it is helpful to have a visual cue when one of multiple summons is causing a magicka drain, so you can attempt to dispel only them.

Sommner42: I am actually unfamiliar with the COBL framework, however next version I’ll try and tuck these options into a sub-menu somewhere.

Well, I decided having an option to choose how much sustaining summons would cost on the in-game menu was a little over the top (you can still tweak it via console). However, as a compromise I just re-uploaded the current version with an "optional" sub-folder containing an .ESP with persistent summoning set as the default behavior. =)

Thank you again for quick fix .. Altho I did open your mod in CS and changed the default behaviour already XD

Right on! =)

Another quick update:

Added the option to Set Summon Scale from the Combat Posture menu. Options are 100% (default), 75%, and 50% normal size. This can help insure summons are able to follow you through some of the more narrow tunnels and passageways, or for being able to more easily get past them when said passageways become a little too crowded. Selections will take effect the next time you summon anything. As with Combat Posture, this setting is maintained until you decide to change it again.

I think you have one more bug to squish. You've overwrite the default Summon Imp spell.. Your mod is the only addition to my list and Summon Imp always one of the first summon I buy since its always on offer by the woodelf in Anvil MG. I start in Anvil

it cost 11 gold to buy and 1 magicka to cast. Imp never showed up btw

Do you happen to use LAME? I ask because I've run into this before. With stock Oblivion, that wood elf guy in Anvil only sells summon scamp, and there is no stock summon imp spell.

My mod doesn’t touch any of the game’s default summon spells AT ALL. However, I do mention one potential conflict with LAME's summon imp spell, which it sounds like you might have experienced. I haven't played that plugin much, though I remember it was pretty cool.

Problem is, it was made before OBSE had the option to assign custom icons to spells (at least I think that's how others are doing it now). That is fine if you only want to add a custom icon for one spell, since the game has around eleven or so unused magic effects you can use in the CS for this, which is what I did for mine.

You can see what I mean if you open the CS, open Oblivion.esm and DLCShiveringIsles.esp in the list (ignore the message about not selecting an active file), then go to Gameplay then Magic Effects. Those four digit codes in the left column represent all of the stock Oblivion/SI spell effects. As you can see, there are many that are unused and have no associated spells or settings. BA01 through BA10 for example, are listed as “Bound Armor Extra” and have no associated spells, icons, effects, sounds, etc.

The one I use, Z020, is listed as “Extra Summon 20,” and is likewise not assigned a spell, icon, sound, effect, etc by either Oblivion or Shivering Isles, and is unused by the game. Therefor, it will not conflict with any default summon spells. You can verify this as well by clicking Spells in the Object Window, then clicking the Name column to sort spells by name. Scroll down to the “Summon” section and you will see there is no Summon Imp spell in the stock game.

This is why I’m pretty sure it’s the conflict with LAME.

The problem is, LAME uses the same method to add nearly a dozen or more new icons to their spells. The icons are really cool, however it sort of uses up every single “Extra” option for any other addon that uses any of the same limited extra spell effects, and so will conflict, like mine and LAME's cast imp.

IMHO addons like LAME that change a ton of spell effects/icons should really not do it this way, and instead should use OBSE to accomplish this, as the very limited extra effects in the CS should really be left to modders who only want to change a single icon.

If you really want the truth, I think its pretty "lame" Beth doesn't just update their CS/engine already to give modders the ability to create new spell effects, and eliminate the problem altogether.

I am pretty stubborn though, and refuse to make my mod reliant on OBSE simply for a single spell icon and a conflict with one spell of one mod, especially when you can just use my summon imp at Apprentice conjuration level, which isn’t “dumb” without the ability to follow you around and issue attack commands or make persistent or any of that which mine can do.

Everything else LAME does works perfectly with my addon. Silly little imp! =P

Nice mod, thanks! Now I'm going to have to start another character as a pure Summoner.

I've looked at some of the scripts and that was a lot of work!. I was trying to figure out if there is a way to summon all at once something like the rats, but the scripts are beyond my current knowledge. Just had this vision of being the leader of an army of rats lol. Not really a problem since they are persistant.

I wonder if you attack an NPC with a mudcrad does the NPC ever say "I've fought mudcrabs worse than you!" lol.

Must go and check out a pure Summoner character now.

Thanks Phinix!

Yes, I used LAME .. because it is required for Integration .. so its a conflict with LAME, might consider saying something about it in the readme.

Anyway, had an extended run of it last night.. went to Crowhaven and promptly dispatched a few skellies. Stepping in, I was greeted by an astral lich! I used TIE + MMM and 1 more creature mod which are also unlevelled, so I dont know which one spawn the b#####d.. He summons 2 wraiths, I summoned every single creature from apprentice list (both over and underworld) and fight for almost half an hour.. some of the creature cant hurt him I guess.. I mean rat and dog going against a lich XD. Remember, this is a level 1 character .... since my armies cant seems to hurt him, I was thinking of kiting him to the road for help from the patrolling guard.. however halfway there, we met a boar, who promptly dispatched the lich, my armies and me x_X .. So annoyed because I lost half an hour of work + 2 levels of conjuration to that boar but enjoying the battle along side my armies.. and its quite nice to fps surprisingly.. didnt hurt that much despite me summoning so much creatures at once.

Now that I have experience the mod in full force .. or at least the gameplay that this mod brings .. A few observations ( I also am a conjuration junkie, while its true that my intention was for the later levels when I acquire those bound weapons and armor spell, my early levels also consist of summoning guardians to occupy my enemies while I stay behind throwing fireballs or what have you)
1) I find it weird to be able to summoned every single creatures from my list (all apprentice summon) .. thats more then 10 creatures (both over and under world) .. yet, I cant summon 2 dogs at the same time.
2) I'm used to Supreme Magicka's summon behaviour.. When you summon a creature, the magicka cost of it is drained from your pool as long its alive (you can cast dispel to unsummon them) .. So having huge summons are quite taxing. You can have several summons out, but then you'll have no more magicka while they are out.
With your mod, I dont have this problem, will try to change the phisustainmult to see if I can replicate this behaviour as you suggested.
3) Do skinned hound really have that sound even if you have quiet feet mod installed? that tap tap tap sound when its walking around

Overall, as a summoner, I'm pretty much satistied at this mod.. ACE.

(Maybe I'm just a cheapskate because I didnt have to buy any more summoning creature spell )

Ok, I've played with this mod quite a while with 2 different games now. Had alot of fun, especially at lower levels, fighting mobs too tough for my level, backpedaling and chain summoning, replacing ones that had died, just trying to stay alive lol. I'm using OOO + MMM plus others so I have lot's of varying mobs.

One problem I've had with both games is sometimes a summons will "die" and stay "dead" the rest of the game even after dispelling and resummoning. I tried resurrect in the console, but it had no effect.

I have a request as well. I think most people will stop using the novice summons when they get to higher skill levels and more powerful summons. How about making it so if you're, say, a master then when you summon a lower level summons like a rat or dog you get your limit of 4 or whatever all at once with one cast. I think it would keep those low level summons useful and fun to use at higher levels. Just a thought.

This is a fun mod, thanks.

That's a really good idea about the instant-summoning of the max number of lesser summons, and I like it so much I think I'm going to go ahead and make that the next revision I work on.

As for the other thing, with summons staying dead. I believe that was an issue I worked out with some of the state variable not getting reset in the scripts when they died. A minor typo I believe was resolved for all the summons in the previous version, though if not, casting "Dispel All" should fix any that get stuck as I added some code in the last version attached to that command which basically forces all these variables to reset. =)