Organic Spellmaking... : V - Skyrim

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:02 am

:grad: :touched: :goodjob:

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:57 am

Not that it really matters, but you don't necessarily need a lot of customization to make game magic fun. I remember the runic magic of Ultima Underworld, where each letter was also a concept. After a while, you started noticing trends, and could learn to make all "new" (undocumented) spells by making reasonable combinations of runes. http://corvus.zakelro.com/2008/01/29/notm-ultima-underworld-runic-magic/

For example, In (cause) Lor (light) was pretty much just a magical torch. However, if you added Vas (greater) to make Vas In Lor, you got a blazing sun of a light that lasted for hours. Naturally, VIL took more mana than IL, and was of a higher level, but it made sense. The same was true of other spells as well - you could have eventually figured them out, even if you lost the booklet with the documented spells in them. It was like playing magical scrabble.

In the end, not every combination worked, and that's actually good - because many would be nonsensical - but a good proportion did work in some way. If you took the time to experiment, you could discover them all. In a lot of ways, this is an ideal magical system. It rewards logical experimentation, is potentially as dangerous as it is rewarding, and provides an enormous variety with only a handful of runes.

It's a shame that modern systems aren't nearly so "magical" as that one.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:19 am

Well then man just miserable package pile of elements, doesn't anything done from basic elements and tied by elemental chains?
In TES spell making its manipulation of Basic Elements from which created all and tied together by the laws that are called the Earth Bones, thats part of Creation thats left in Nirn when Magnus partially escape creation trap.
And scripting effect expand Creation even more since with scripts we can create new elements or apply them in different way.
So True Spellmaking can be achieved in CS, in CS we actually work with Creation, while in game we just touch it, without spell making we even cant touch them and feel warm of Primordial Forces.

That was... deep. I admit I didn't understand %90 of it. What is Creation? What do you mean by "scripting". Is CS, Construction Set? I can't figure if you're referring to lore or gameplay. The spellmaking I talk about which seen in menus, is just a gameplay feature. I'm sure the spell creation in Nirn doesn't mention about menus and such.

There is no evidence thats new spell system is dynamic its can be just some hardcoded spells like in Dark Messiah or in Bioshock.

I was partially referring to OP. I also think/expect/hope it will be like that, otherwise it won't be TES style. Systemization is a high priority in TES. Spellmaking might be in too in the end. It hasn't been confirmed 100%.

Well not only useful utility spell can be prepared but also roleplaying ones also, with classical magical system enhanced by scripting can be done spell from any other systems.

That's about modding, right? How many scripted spells are there in vanilla? I think spellmaking isn't something modders can't take up in any case.

I think they are similar to Ultima Underworld rune system or similar to Arx Fatalis but without ability draw them, instead we will shout them.

Spoiler

-------------------------------------------------------------------|AN   - Negate  |BET  - Small  |CORP  - Death     |DES  - Down    ||EX   - Freedom |FLAM - Flame  |GRAV  - Energy    |HUR  - Wind    ||IN   - Cause   |JUX  - Harm   |KAL   - Summon    |LOR  - Light   ||MANI - Life    |NOX  - Poison |ORT   - Magic     |POR  - Movement||QUAS - Illusion|REL  - Change |SANCT - Protection|TYM  - Time    ||UUS  - Raise   |VAS  - Great  |WIS   - Knowledge |YLEM - Matter  |---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Spells of the 1st Circle       | Spells of the 2nd Circle        ||                                |                                 || IN MANI YLEM   Create Food     | QUAS CORP      Cause Fear       || IN LOR         Light           | QUAS MANI YLEM Dispel Hunger    || ORT JUX        Magic Arrow     | IN BET MANI    Lesser Heal      || BET IN SANCT   Resist Blows    | UUS POR        Jump             || UUS DES POR    Bounce          | REL DES POR    Slow Fall        || WIS JUX        Detect Traps    | ORT WIS JUX    Deadly Seeker    || BET ORT IN     Luck            | IN FLAM JUX    Flame Rune       || BET WIS EX     Locate          | QUAS AN CORP   Valor            ||                                |                                 |--------------------------------------------------------------------| Spells of the 3rd Circle       | Spells of the 4th Circle        ||                                |                                 || AN NOX         Cure Poison     | IN MANI        Heal             || ORT GRAV       Lightning       | IN AN FLAM     Frost            || QUAS LOR       Night Vision    | IN SANCT       Thick Skin       || REL TYM POR    Speed           | NOX JUX YLEM   Poison Weapon    || AN JUX ORT     Dispel Rune     | AN JUX         Remove Trap      || JUX MANI       Bleeding        | SANCT FLAM     Flameproof       || YLEM POR       Water Walk      | GRAV SANCT POR Missile Prot.    || AN KAL CORP    Repel Undead    | WIS MANI       Study Monster    ||                                |                                 |--------------------------------------------------------------------| Spells of the 5th Circle       | Spells of the 6th Circle        ||                                |                                 || REL SANCT YLEM Mending         | VAS IN LOR     Daylight         || POR FLAM       Fireball        | VAS REL POR    Gate Travel      || ORT WIS YLEM   Name Enchantment| VAS IN MANI    Greater Heal     || EX YLEM        Open            | AN EX POR      Paralyze         || AN CORP MANI   Smite Undead    | QUAS REL WIS   Charm            || ORT POR YLEM   Telekenisis     | VAS SANCT LOR  Invisibility     || IN TYM JUX     Time Trap       | VAS ORT GRAV   Sheet Lightning  || UUS HUR POR    Levitate        | WIS EX         Map Area         ||                                |                                 |--------------------------------------------------------------------| Spells of the 7th Circle       | Spells of the 8th Circle        ||                                |                                 || KAL AN MANI    Summon Demon    | FLAM HUR       Flame Wind       || VAS AN WIS     Mass Confusion  | AN TYM         Freeze Time      || ORT AN QUAS    Reveal          | IN VAS SANCT   Iron Flesh       || ORT POR GRAV   Magic Satellite | VAS MANI       Restoration      || VAS EX YLEM    Portal          | ORT POR WIS    Roaming Sight    || JUX HUR        Shockwave       | VAS JUX MANI   Smite Foe        || VAS ORT YLEM   Enchant Item    | VAS HUR POR    Fly              || VAS POR YLEM   Tremor          | VAS KAL CORP   Armageddon       ||                                |                                 |--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm, I'm getting excited. I want to know more. The shouts will unlock word by word but we don't get to actually mix and match them, I guess. It would have become as a great alternative to spell making. If there are 20+ preset shouts and 60+ words(wait shouts don't share many words, eh?) then those permutations outside of the preset 20 could work as custom spellmaking. Really, only with 20 words, there are still thousands of permutations.

@Xarnac,
you are totally from a different plane than I am.

I don't understand the significance of those stacked spells in your example but yet again I don't know about Equestian or Maomer. If those effects represent a Maomer then I applaud the creativity.

No, it's not. Every time this topic comes up in a thread, there are posts that say it's just the same, but it's not. It's not even close.

Off the top of my head custom spells (just to give an idea):
Stumble: Burden 300pts for 2 secs on target
Trip: Absorb Fatigue 200pts for 1 sec on target
Blinding Blast: Fire Damage 30pts for 10' on target, Chameleon 50% for 5s on self
....

300pts. Well, it won't be the same to the extend of precise points but this is because of the anolog nature. But it isn't impossible with OP's system because they aren't predefined.

Example: You have burden selected. The amounts, duration or type are not predefined. Read the OP. You can manipulate all those, you won't actually see the numbers but you will have to do it with instinct instead. It will be light-medium-heavy burden instead of 300pts. You will be able to choose target and totally control the duration as you fit.

For example I can cast a burden spell as long as it takes to fully stop my enemy, given that I have enough magicka. Or fatigue, just long enough to make them collapse. Or a small amount of fire, a quick tap of a button. Or fully deplete my magicka as fast as possible as a fire spell on my target. On the fly, not predefined.