MassAI not having an effect : IV

» Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:45 pm

So, I have a situation where there are a fairly sizable number of NPC's on screen, not more than the machine can handle, but they all stand and do nothing.
The solution is supposed to be the MassAi.esp, but that isn't having any effect (yes it is loaded, yes it is changing the game settings it is supposed to change).

The game plays exactly the same with and without MassAi there.

Does anyone else have any experience of this kind of thing happening, or in this case NOT happening?

» Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:36 am

So, I have a situation where there are a fairly sizable number of NPC's on screen, not more than the machine can handle, but they all stand and do nothing.
The solution is supposed to be the MassAi.esp, but that isn't having any effect (yes it is loaded, yes it is changing the game settings it is supposed to change).

The game plays exactly the same with and without MassAi there.

Does anyone else have any experience of this kind of thing happening, or in this case NOT happening?

Use the Wrye tweak instead.

» Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:29 am

Use the Wrye tweak instead.

Wrye tweak just does *exactly* the same thing - you can see in TES4Edit that all it does is change two ini file settings to exactly the same value as MassAi does. {:-(

» Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:45 pm

Wrye tweak just does *exactly* the same thing - you can see in TES4Edit that all it does is change two ini file settings to exactly the same value as MassAi does. {:-(

Not an expert but it depends a lot on the computer - that 100 NPCs in combat are allowed is not the same as the rig being able to handle it. I have an old rig and have to use reduced spawns to not have the issue, but even powerful rigs will choke with too many NPCs due to engine limitations I guess. In short, upping the allowed number doesn't equal the rig being able to handle it.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084290-relzmartsmonstermod37b3-public-release-3-relz/page__view__findpost__p__15877064:

I do not have a 100 version on my MASSAI tesnexus page. So will have to make one or you can modify these values in a new plugin..

Can be found under game settings in cs editor or tes4edit..

iNumberActorsInCombatPlayer - number of actors allowed in combat at once

iAINumberActorsComplexScene - number of actors allowed to be active at one time

Crank combat to 90, Scene to 100..

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084290-relzmartsmonstermod37b3-public-release-3-relz/page__view__findpost__p__15876439 on MassAI while I'm at it:

MassAI is already included in both MMM and OOO and FCOM.

The bash settings max is 50 which is what OOO uses , MMM max is 40.. MMMforOOO/FCOM is 50, actors loaded in cells and active,

and max npc allowed during combat are 30 for MMM and 40 for MMMforOOO/FCOM.

MassAI plugin has a plugin for up to 100..But you got have one hell of a computer once again to run that ..

» Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:41 am

Not an expert but it depends a lot on the computer - that 100 NPCs in combat are allowed is not the same as the rig being able to handle it. I have an old rig and have to use reduced spawns to not have the issue, but even powerful rigs will choke with too many NPCs due to engine limitations I guess. In short, upping the allowed number doesn't equal the rig being able to handle it.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084290-relzmartsmonstermod37b3-public-release-3-relz/page__view__findpost__p__15877064:

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084290-relzmartsmonstermod37b3-public-release-3-relz/page__view__findpost__p__15876439 on MassAI while I'm at it:

Sure, I completely agree, but the machine isn't even being close to stressed. I am getting high framerates and no slowdown. From the information you quoted with MassAI that they expect a slowdown with 90/100, rather than the engine re-balancing, and I have seen no slowdown whatsoever. The machine runs smoothly, but - nothing changes. The console shows that the changes have been made, but I wonder if somewhere something else needs to be changed to make the engine notice them. The box this is running on is very high end and could, I expect, handle 100 active NPC's. Even if not, and it slowed it down, I would at least know the limits, but as it stands, it acts the same with 10/20 as with 50/100, and on a fast box, that can't be right.

» Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:59 pm

Sure, I completely agree, but the machine isn't even being close to stressed. I am getting high framerates and no slowdown. From the information you quoted with MassAI that they expect a slowdown with 90/100, rather than the engine re-balancing, and I have seen no slowdown whatsoever. The machine runs smoothly, but - nothing changes. The console shows that the changes have been made, but I wonder if somewhere something else needs to be changed to make the engine notice them. The box this is running on is very high end and could, I expect, handle 100 active NPC's. Even if not, and it slowed it down, I would at least know the limits, but as it stands, it acts the same with 10/20 as with 50/100, and on a fast box, that can't be right.

It's not about slowdown. You can have 50 FPS and still have NPCs that stand still if the rig can't handle the AI. Might be something else in your particular case of course.

» Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:54 am

Please post your load order has it could not MASSAI related

Some of the Alternate Start's mod can cause the problem has well there was a post about it somewhere on this forum

I can get non responsive Npc and Creatures that do not react when I Use Increased Spawn Rates and Waterlife and MWL on my Amd Quad Core 3.0ghz, once I lower my spawn rate to moderate or lower the problem goes away..

take them a few seconds to react, because fps dips from 30 fps to 15 when in combat ( could be sound related) try using Quiet Feet Tweaks in Bash to see if that help the problem's..

» Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:07 pm

Please post your load order has it could not MASSAI related

Some of the Alternate Start's mod can cause the problem has well there was a post about it somewhere on this forum

I can get non responsive Npc and Creatures that do not react when I Use Increased Spawn Rates and Waterlife and MWL on my Amd Quad Core 3.0ghz, once I lower my spawn rate to moderate or lower the problem goes away..

take them a few seconds to react, because fps dips from 30 fps to 15 when in combat ( could be sound related) try using Quiet Feet Tweaks in Bash to see if that help the problem's..

Load order is quite simply Oblivion, SI, UOP, the purchased DLC, UOP for the DLC, then the mod I am writing, then MassAI.

*nothing* unusual is in the system, as I am trying to ensure the new mod runs as cleanly as possible.

As I mentioned, the variables show as set to the values expected in the console, so it can't be load order with something else overriding it - if only it were that simple {:-(

» Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:56 am

Load order is quite simply Oblivion, SI, UOP, the purchased DLC, UOP for the DLC, then the mod I am writing, then MassAI.

*nothing* unusual is in the system, as I am trying to ensure the new mod runs as cleanly as possible.

As I mentioned, the variables show as set to the values expected in the console, so it can't be load order with something else overriding it - if only it were that simple {:-(

To remove further doubt, Ive reduced the package list even further. Now it is just Oblivion, SI, UOP, Fighters Stronghold (needed), UOP for F.S., the new mod, then MassAI

I think a question that needs to be confirmed is that with how MassAI should be working, with a pair of high values, should the game slow down to a crawl if it needs to, or DOES it self-balance and reduce NPC activities if it hits a slowdown. The game does not seem to be slowing down, but if it does try and self-balance then maybe that is the issue. Although I can't see it being the case, I would like to either eliminate this possibility, or confirm it is a possibility.

I know a lot of people believe it self-balances, but I have seen no concrete evidence, or statements from someone that says 'it definitely does, I can confirm it does, I have seen it happen'.