A system like that might be a really nice to help get partially rid of this stupid [censored] [censored] *@!$#$/=)/!*# leveled loot system. For example if your one hand skill is 10, and you decide to use a Daedric Longsword you somehow got your hands on, you can use it but it'll deal about the same damage as an Iron Dagger would (penalty for using a weapon you're not good enough for) same with armor, you could wear this heavy Daedric armor but it'll work just about as bad for you as a set of heavy iron armor. like maybe every 5 or 10 levels in light/heavy armor you can use a better set of armor and same with one/two handed weapons.
What do you think?

I'm not sure exactly how such a system should be implemented, but I'm in favor of it.

This ties in with another thing that comes up from time to time, with which I also agree - that there should be less of a penalty for using lower grade weapons and armor at high levels. Not only should you not be able to gain a huge advantage just from using better quality items at lower skill levels, but you shouldn't be essentially forced into using those better quality items at higher skill levels. Skill should have MUCH more to do with all of it than the material of the item, so that - yeah - a character with low skill in a particular weapon should svck with that weapon, no matter what it's made out of, and a character with high skill in a weapon should be good with that weapon, again no matter what it's made of.

Kindof like a man skilled with the use of a sword and is using a rusty old one would easily defeat a guy thats not skilled in the use of his great great awesome brand new super duper claymore.
just like a guy who is skilled in martial arts would defeat "Mr.Me So Strong" by going for pressure points or just packing more punch with the use of technique.

I might be wrong, but I feel like Oblivion already implemented what you described....

How is this different from what we have already? The higher your blade skill the more damage you do with blades. Are you implying that you receive an increased debuff at lower levels?

Yes. increased debuffs in return for better loot.

I think the basic "lower skill = lower effectiveness" system was already used (in different forms tailored to the game's combat systems) in both Morrowind and Oblivion, and trying to make the effects any more drastic would be a non-starter. It would result in the "choices > everything else including believability" crowd descending on gamesas with torches and pitchforks for "restricting teh roleplayz!!1!!"

I agree that skill should generally provide greater bonuses than material, but IMO, a daedric weapon should carve through iron armor (more or less), and an iron weapon should be limited in effectiveness again daedric.

Think of it this way: master swordsman with a bamboo practice sword, or a 16-year old with a steel sword. Which does more damage to a practice dummy? I'd expect the swordsman to win a fight with the kid, but the kid will be dangerous (and wouldn't be at all if their weapons were swapped).

Armor has an additional issue. I like armors to be balanced and to have trade-offs (requires mods). To me, choosing dwarven vs ebony vs orcish vs whatever shouldn't be about which design best matches my eye color, and it shouldn't be just a wait (or rush) for daedric or glass. Weight, material health, speed-, agility- and sneak-penalties, possibly casting penalties, and other factors can be used to make the choices matter, and to avoid a situation with one best armor and a lot of obsolete armor.

Skill should matter, but if it matters too much, then all of the variety in the game becomes cosmetic.

it sort of did, only the deadric weapon would have a base dmg of 3 or something slightly higher than an iron dagger which would likely have a value of 1.

but the previous system that was most like this was actually MW's. people most complain that it was stupid that they could not kill a mudcrab with the iron dagger they got in the census, but that was always because of their own incompetence since it was always the case in these complaints that they picked the axe or marksmen skill and try to use a dagger. you miss infrequently if you used the weapons you had the skill for, and that was mostly due to having that main skill still a bit low in the begining.

I am not sure how the OP's idea would balance out, but it doesn't sound game breaking, so at the very least the mod people should play around with the idea. (if they have not done so already)

Hmmm, I kinda think that you are on to something here, realism and role play wise (which i love) but I dont think other people would like the idea all that well.

I believe TH mentioned that you can use anything with any skill but they'd be near useless.

So using a longsword with no skill with them will be a waste, while you can do all sorts of cool things with it if you're skilled.

Same with archery. You can shoot a bow, not well, but you should still be able to hold it and fit an arrow.

Well you know how the system works with skills now, you need to level them, so you need to be able to use a longsword even if your skill is close to 0, just not a very good one. but theres just gonna be a one handed and 2 handed skill i think, so you'll always have the skill now, its just a question of how much of it you'll have.

Sounds about right, a skilled person with an Iron Dagger would be able to kill a noob with a Daedric Longsword. What's your issue?

My issue is that the Daedric Longsword has much higher damage than the iron dagger even if you're at a low skill level. this does not feel right. because daedric longsword at least looks like a highly advanced weapon that can't be properly wielded by just anyone. same with glass.

I thought you said they had the same damage. Personally, I don't remember the exact damage differences. As long as the skilled person beats the non-skilled person it doesn't seem like it should matter that much. Also, there's no 'handling' difference between a Daedric longsword and an iron one from my perspective. One is just made better. Technically the better a sword is made the EASIER it is to handle

i think this wole thing is not realistic, they should just show the strength of your weapon, and depending on your skill thats how much damage you will do times the weapon. One of the things that i think that should be implemented is that you cant wield a heavy weapon if your strength is not height enough, and higher lvl weapons are usually heavier so that takes care of that.

Actually...I dont understand what you are saying. This is what already happens in TES. If your skill with an armor type or a weapon type is low, using that weapon type is a waste of time.

I think the thing here is that this applies equally to all weapons. If you try to use a Daedric dagger with ten in the appropriate skill, you'll be just as bad with it as an iron dagger, the dagger still does more damage, but your skill affects your ability to use it in the exact same way as how it would with an iron dagger, which makes perfect sense. A Daedric dagger is not fundamentally different from an iron dagger in it's design, it's basically the same thing, just made with different materials and a higher quality construction, so there's no reason it should be any harder to use, either way, you use them in exactly the same way, one is just more effective than the other due to higher quality construction, and that quality isn't going to magically become irrelevent because you're not skilled with it, your ability to use both would suffer the same amount. Now, there are some weapons which are actually harder to use than others, like say, longbows versus crossbows, a longbow requires much more training to use effectively, so it would make sense if you need to have a certain level of skill to be decent with it while a crossbow wouldn't have the same requirement, but that's a special case, and it seems at this time that crossbows won't be in the game anyway.

If I somehow manage to acquire Daedric weapons at level one, I DESERVE to be able to use them, if you don't want to have loot be scaled but still want to keep people from using certain items before they're "supposed" to have them, then have them guarded by powerful, non-leveled enemies a low level character is unlikely to be able to defeat, it's simple, really, and if some people manage to still get them any, it means either those people are skilled or the enemies weren't strong enough after all. If it's the first one, then I think those people have earned the right to have better weapons than they're "supposed" to at their characters' level, if it's the latter, then maybe it's time for the developers to examine the game and see if they did something wrong.

The OP is saying that the way loot from enemies "levels up with your level" is stupid. You know, badits suddenly showing up in full ebony/deadra armor/weapons.

I don't think it's any more stupid though then the idea that I need a certain skill level to use a sword. It's not like rocket science or something to use a weapon. Suddenly reminded of a christmas story. You'll shoot yer eye out!

Sum's up my feelings about about it.

I disagree. There is nothing inherently special about a steel sword over and Iron sword other than the material. You shouldn't need special training to use a sword just because it is made of a differnt material. They already have a system in place with getting the most out of a weapon type via the perks system. The idea of some artifical restriction on the weapons because they are superior in craftmanship seem equally as "stupid [censored] [censored] *@!$#$/=)/!*#" that you feel the level loot system is. There simply is no logical reason why a person starting out learning a weapon can't use a superior crafted weapon than a cheap piece of rubbish.

I never had a single problem with the leveled loot system nor with the leveled enemies.

If I found a daedric longsword here in the real world, and was strong enough to swing it around, why should I not be able to swing it? Because I don't have even a tiny bit of training with swords? Huh...?

I dont get this either. The OP made no reference at all to the materials the weapons are made of. He said that Daedric swords are equvialent in damage to iron daggers when your blade skill is low. Which is what already happens, so I dont get this thread.

If I have no skill in wielding swords then it doesn't matter what the sword is made of, I wouldn't be able to use it well. The reason you train with a wooden sword is so you don't cut your arm off, your trainer wouldn't say your doing well now here's a rusty iron sword, when you get better we'll move you up to normal iron.