I don't think we'll have continued problems with this though unless this is the first time its been brought up, which i doubt. Bethesda is usually really good about listening to the forums and such

I pray they keep the Mages' Guild dead, and have two mage institutions (The Synod and the College of Whisperer's) in which you can only join one and they have very different views on magic.

Like in Morrowind, it made no sense to join both the Mages' Guild and the Telvanni, and they had different views. The guild saw magic as an area to study and improve themselves through research. The Telvanni saw magic as power, the more versed you were in the magicka schools, the more powerful you were.

Aside from that, I agree with the OP. Thought it was so dumb that my pure warrior made it to the top of the Mages' Guild and only slightly struggled on one quest.

That just means we get to have two guilds for mages in Skyrim, maybe, it may also be that some time between Infernal City and Skyrim, one of these groups was disbanded or they combined again or something, who knows what can happen in over a hundred years, or maybe both factions exist at the time of Skyrim, but only one is actually joinable in the game, either because the other one has no presence in Skyrim or exists as a faction in the game, but isn't joinable, we really can't say what Bethesda will do.



And yet you could join both, I'm not sure if this would ever cause problems for you or not, but one faction would not prevent you from joining entirely if you were part of the other, the only factions that did that were the Great Houses, I'm pretty sure.

But really, the entire problem being discussed here could be adressed if skill requirements for factions were returned, or alternately, it would be much better if the Mages Guild quests just actually required you to use magic, that way, it would make much more sense than how it was in Oblivion, since by succeeding in those quests, you'd have proven that you can use magic, it would be sort of like the Thieves Guild in Oblivion, technically, you're not required to be good at stealth to join, but most of the quests require you to rely on stealth, so the actual numbers aren't what controls whether you can advance, but whether you can show that you actually can do what the guild needs you to do or not, and honestly, that actually seems to make more sense. Your guild can't see what your skills, after all, what they'll be looking at is results. The problem is when you don't need to know anything about the skills the guild specializes in to get those results, like Oblivion's Mages Guild. At least for the Fighters Guild, while you didn't actually have to be good with a sword, you had to be able to fight with SOMETHING, even if it was magic.

But it's been indicated that Bethesda is planning some major change with the factions, so we really can't say how they'll be handled, we can only wait, and see what they do.

THIS. Completely agree. We should totally have a choice to make between the College of Whispers and the Synod as a sort of.....Jedi or Sith style type of guild split. If you disagree, please don't flame, I'm just saying it could be cool. Different quests, using different powers, and leading to awesome different conclusions. Not trying to emphasize black and white gameplay, but having more options and replay value is always awesome, IMO.

And maybe, if we're really lucky, we might get to join the Penitus Oculatus for the Empire, or the enemy faction for the "rebel spies". (lolz at thoughts of Darth Vader) Being in either would allow us to have an entirely new guild, being magickal detectives/assassins for the Penitus Oculatus, or rebel agents trying to do some espionage against the Empire's forces in Skyrim. THAT would be awesome!

Your thoughts???

Kotick runs Activision don't he?

Indeed. As I said in the other thread, I'd like to see the Synod similar to the Telvanni, where quests involve more combat and battles and dealing with becoming more powerful. Quests involving mage duels for advancement and such. With the College of Whisperers, I'd like to see a Morrowind Mage Guild style, where quests involve knowledge and research. I loved how the girl in Ald 'Ruhn basically had an entire quest line where you were just helping her with her research.

As for morality and choices, I went into that in the other thread.

And of course, you should need a high intelligence to rise up with the CoW's and high willpower and magicka to advance in the Synod.

And ever since reading the novel, I've wanted to join the Penitus Ocalutus. I've been wanting an Imperial guild for stealth characters for a while. The Morag Tong was close, but was pretty much just assassins, and the Thieves guild is opposite. Stealth characters working as Imperial agents, somewhat like the early MQ working for the blades in Morrowind was interesting.

The reason the guilds worked that way in ob was because of imperials and thier obsession with political power over real ability. It was ROLEPLAY. Hell they beat you over the head with the fact this was annoying the mages in the guild that some heads of local chapters were skilless twits.

I mean realy they couldnt have hinted more loudly if they had branded it on your freaking rump then had 20000 woodelves sing it while kicking your naughty bits!

Requirements to join a guild and to attain ranks in them, yes please.

I can't correct you, but if we're going by this 'no news' argument, it's more logical that the Mages Guild is still dead, since last we heard it was, and last we heard, there were two new organizations to replace the Mages Guild because it had become obsolete.

In the novel, "The Infernal CIty," there was mention of Synod and The College of Whispers factions. I suspect not much will be confirmed until after the 2nd book is released in September of 2011. The mystery could be part of a marketing strategy.

There have been revealed facts about mages organisations.
In the Infernal City what was the mages guild is now two distinct organisations called the Synod and the College of Whispers.

Im joining whichever teaches levitation. lol.

Simply make the quests demand use of high-level magic and don't place scrolls with the necessary effects next to the object or being needing to be influenced by magic. Makes sense AND allows you to roleplay someone who becomes arch-mage without any skill in magic by using scrolls and enchanted items. Sneaky.

I'm pretty sure I'll be much happier, and we'll all have a heap of info (aside from more about Skyrim!) when Lord of Souls comes out. Considering TIC basically was just half of a huge story, and it had almost as many cliffhangers as the worst soap operas, I'm sure we'll have an exponential increase in knowledge about what to expect Skyrim's timeframe to be like. Why else delay it till September? Obviously marketing to bring it up again when Skyrim hype is high, yeah. But perhaps it also is because there is some revealing info about the events preceding Skyrim's story. I personally already believe at least some of the characters of TIC will end up in Skyrim by the end of LOS.

I would expect we'll see a much more extensive description of how the 2 mage sects, the Penitus Oculatus, and the Empire's decay and the rebellion affect Skyrim. But then again, there will probably be a good 150-160 years between the end of LOS and Skyrim, so it's not a sure bet. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. As usual....

Or both of them. You have a curriculum (your skills) and your missions, and the way you do them could well count on your progression, so the more magic way, the better.

Uh, you just explained Oblivion. I still LOVE Oblivion but to me Oblivion is the easier challenges and very simplified version of all TES games. I don't find many cheap thrills in Oblivion, but there is a few of them, just like in any game.

Yes definitely guilds must have better requirements then it was done in Oblivion, control an specialist organization without appropriate skills looks really strange, where is developers found inspiration for such flaw in Oblivion?
Guild quests need skill requirements for advancing in Ranks, thats will ensure only real specialist will rule guild at end,
but also looks much more realistic when guild send skilled member to deal with their quest instead of newbie as well.
Membership in guild need certain Favored Attributes for Joining and advancing, certain areas can be off limits until character will reach certain Rank, some service can be unavailable until rank will reached, guild resources must not be available for just joined members (most of thats can be controlled by area restrictions)
Guilds can haves reduced cost of service for members or if players has good relationship with guild (certain quest can be available not only for members of guild)
Restricted Areas can be guarded and can great targets for Rogue Characters
Having certain ranks allow give commands to members of lower ranks
Certain gilds must has cross interests, player will not able advance in rivals guilds furtherer if advancing in one guild will need eliminate members from another guild or take furtherer guild interests.