Hairy Quill-Weave : IV

» Tue May 03, 2011 12:40 am

Hello forum, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster.

I have been using Ren's Beauty Pack for a long time (only the hair version). Lately, I noticed that every time I use it Quill-Weave inherits one of Ren's haircuts, not always the same one if I deactivate, save, and reactivate the mod. For now she is the only NPC I met in this situation. Though busty female Argonians do not break my immersion, hairy ones do. My load order is relatively light and I can think of no mod in it which would be both obscure enough to never have been corrected AND have any reason to mess with her hair specifically. Searching the latest few pages of comments on the Nexus turned up nothing, and I am not comfortable enough with the CS or other tools to go look in the guts of my mods myself. Did anyone else ever suffer this issue or is anyone more savvy than myself aware of what might cause the problem?

Load order, as ordered and bash tagged by BOSS:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.2]02  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]03  Open Cities Resources.esm  [Version 3.5.6]**  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp  [Version 1.06]**  TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 1.00]04  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.4]05  DLCShiveringIsles.esp06  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.1]07  LoadingScreens.esp08  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.2]09  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.2]0A  Immersive Interiors.esp  [Version 0.7]0B  Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp  [Version 0.7]0C  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp0D  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.2]0E  WindowLightingSystem.esp0F  AliveWaters.esp10  AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp11  AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp12  RAEVWD Cities.esp  [Version 1.9]13  RAEVWD Imperial City.esp  [Version 1.9]14  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.2.2]15  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]16  OCC-OOO-Patch.esp  [Version 2.4]17  EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer for OOO.esp18  Open Cities New Sheoth.esp  [Version 1.1]19  Open Cities Outer Districts.esp  [Version 3.5.6]1A  Open Cities Full.esp  [Version 3.5.7]1B  Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp1C  Oblivion XP.esp**  Cava Obscura - Cyrodiil.esp**  Cava Obscura - SI.esp**  Cava Obscura - Filter Patch For Mods.esp1D  _Ren_BeautyPack_onlyhairs.esp++  EVE_KhajiitFix.esp**  Open Cities Classic Road Record.esp**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.2]1E  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

Ren's Beauty Pack has the Hair bash tag and it's Race Records are imported in the Bashed Patch.

» Tue May 03, 2011 1:24 am

That's because Quill-Weave doesn't have any hair assigned. Wrye bash then smashes some seemingly random hair to her. If you want to be sure, take a peek in Cheydinhal and search for an male orc with ren's haircut.

I don't know any real fix for this so I just went through all NPCs that I found with funky hair and assigned them with something more appropriate.

» Tue May 03, 2011 10:11 am

Thank you.

I will get the CS and modify my TNR esp to assign her specific hair and see if the change holds.

» Mon May 02, 2011 9:18 pm

I only looked at this thread because the title sounded filthy! :whistling:

» Tue May 03, 2011 8:05 am

Thank you.

I will get the CS and modify my TNR esp to assign her specific hair and see if the change holds.

If you like Ren's hairs and TNR, you might like http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21104, which assigns modded hairs/eyes to NPCs and thus "solves" this issue.

» Mon May 02, 2011 8:11 pm

One of the faults of Race Balancing Project (and I assumed Cobl Races by extension) is that it does not address this issue and so with each bashing of the patch you would get difference hairstyles and since bg did not edit out what I would term non-lore hair - you could get any number of completely ridiculous hair styles.

With the lizards (on my more open minded days) I see them as wigs (other days I roll my yes and get on with my life). But after a while the super model hair cuts on cats and lizards just gets old.

These two mods are far more appropriate I think:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13050
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9928
... I thought there was another one called crom's but can't find it.

» Tue May 03, 2011 6:55 am

One of the faults of Race Balancing Project (and I assumed Cobl Races by extension) is that it does not address this issue and so with each bashing of the patch you would get difference hairstyles and since bg did not edit out what I would term non-lore hair - you could get any number of completely ridiculous hair styles.

With the lizards (on my more open minded days) I see them as wigs (other days I roll my yes and get on with my life). But after a while the super model hair cuts on cats and lizards just gets old.

These two mods are far more appropriate I think:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13050
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9928
... I thought there was another one called crom's but can't find it.

So you're saying that RBP assigns eyes/hairs randomly to NPCs? That sounds an odd way of doing it and immersion breaking as well. Cobl Races TNR gives each NPC a set custom eyes and many of them a set custom hair, so they always look the same - this isn't changed by rebuilding the Bashed Patch. In short, each NPC has hairs/eyes that are specifically chosen for him/her. For example, Quill-Weave has cobHairCapArgDecoratedSpikes and cobEyeCapArgOrange2. This also means that Argonians only get eyes/hars fitting for them, so I'd say Cobl Races TNR is "appropriate". I assumed RBP was set up very similarly as Cobl Races is basically a light version of RBP.

» Tue May 03, 2011 10:34 am

I haven't noticed random hairstyles with RBP. What I got was NPC's set to 'Default' for hair and/or eyes. The eyes defaulted to the 'blind' style which I found slightly more disturbing than orc's with anime hair. It's been a while but I think I edited RBP to fix it. All my race stuff, Roberts, Slofs, RBP are in one big omod and I haven't changed it for ages.

» Tue May 03, 2011 2:29 am

So you're saying that RBP assigns eyes/hairs randomly to NPCs?

No, he's saying that's what the Bashed Patch is doing, because that's how it resolves NPC records it runs into that don't have hair and eye settings defined. It randomly assigns one, but only if you're using the "Race Records" menu in Bash.

» Tue May 03, 2011 2:57 am

No, he's saying that's what the Bashed Patch is doing, because that's how it resolves NPC records it runs into that don't have hair and eye settings defined. It randomly assigns one, but only if you're using the "Race Records" menu in Bash.

Yes, I understand that and my point is that Cobl Races TNR "solves" this by assigning hairs/eyes to NPC's. Quill-weave will always look "appropriate". I've never seen an Argonian with inappropriate hair using it.

» Tue May 03, 2011 7:18 am

Right, TNR and TIE both "solve" this the same way, by editing the records so that they all have consistent results. It's also somewhat beneficial in that the bashed patch doesn't bloat up with records it otherwise doesn't need. I usually try and make sure any mod added NPCs I make have sensible data set as well because I'm OCD enough to get irritated at finding my stuff creeping in as masters to the patch over something like that.

» Tue May 03, 2011 2:30 am

Yes, I understand that and my point is that Cobl Races TNR "solves" this by assigning hairs/eyes to NPC's. Quill-weave will always look "appropriate". I've never seen an Argonian with inappropriate hair using it.

Well that is why I called it a fault of RBP.

And I thought it was the same with COBL races ... which I've never used.

Are you saying that even with race records imported into bash you don't see this kind of stuff?

If so interesting that means there is an advantage to COBL races over RBP. But even so - that is the only one I can think of. It is hard ot beat RBP for not only introducing new races but then integrating (in varying degrees of appropriateness) beauty mods and placing the race assignments into leveled lists so that every once in a while that maurading warlord from FCOM is also a Daedra Seducer or that lone wizard in the Niban bay is a water elf.

Then Arthmoor are you saying that RBP bloats save game files?

» Tue May 03, 2011 12:31 am

Are you saying that even with race records imported into bash you don't see this kind of stuff?

If so interesting that means there is an advantage to COBL races over RBP. But even so - that is the only one I can think of. It is hard ot beat RBP for not only introducing new races but then integrating (in varying degrees of appropriateness) beauty mods and placing the race assignments into leveled lists so that every once in a while that maurading warlord from FCOM is also a Daedra Seducer or that lone wizard in the Niban bay is a water elf.

Then Arthmoor are you saying that RBP bloats save game files?

Hard to beat if you like those changes, yes. As I dislike some of RBP's features and don't care about others I definitely prefer Cobl Races over it.

Anyway, no, I've never noticed any oddities with Cobl Races. Been using it for at least two +250 hour games.

» Tue May 03, 2011 5:02 am

Do you import race records into bash with COBL races?

And yeah I do also like the changes to racial powers and bonuses so I would be hard pressed to drop RBP ... then also you know that cool mod called integration.

» Mon May 02, 2011 6:39 pm

Then Arthmoor are you saying that RBP bloats save game files?

No. I'm saying the bashed patch bloats itself up by adding NPC records it really doesn't need to when the data isn't set up. The save game file isn't affected by that.

» Tue May 03, 2011 6:23 am

Cobl is a little too broad in scope and the Argonian hair mods are a little too over the top for my liking, but thanks for the suggestions.

By the way wouldn't assigning vanilla hair to the few NPCs that miss them fall under the purview of the UOP Supplementals, Arthmoor?

» Tue May 03, 2011 2:12 am

By the way wouldn't assigning vanilla hair to the few NPCs that miss them fall under the purview of the UOP Supplementals, Arthmoor?

Sorry, but that would only lead down a rabbit hole I don't want to go down. Numerous vanilla NPCs don't have those records and it would then require that they all be added to the UOPS to avoid the problem you're talking about. I assigned non-defaults to those NPCs who already have UOP edits but I'm not going to include more just for this issue.

That's one Wrye Bash tweak I don't really understand the point of other than to make other mods happy somehow. It doesn't break a thing to leave them alone.

» Tue May 03, 2011 2:25 am

Do you import race records into bash with COBL races?

Yes.

And yeah I do also like the changes to racial powers and bonuses so I would be hard pressed to drop RBP ... then also you know that cool mod called integration.

I'm not interested in advocating Cobl Races over RBP - I just think that calling RBP "hard to beat" compared to Cobl Races is misplaced as their aims are different.

» Tue May 03, 2011 2:20 am

I'm not interested in advocating Cobl Races over RBP - I just think that calling RBP "hard to beat" compared to Cobl Races is misplaced as their aims are different.

Aims are different? Shouldn't be compared? What?

Isn't COBL races just a port of RBP version 10 to the COBL domain (in essence another mod pack)?

They ought to have the same backbone with RBP having more mod added races and cosmetic and leveled list bling being the main differences.

This is the first issue I've seen where the COBL variant fixes something that the source mod doesn't.

» Tue May 03, 2011 5:36 am

As somone else who has used all three variations - RBP,Cobl Races, and Cobl Races TNR.
I also hate some of the hairstyles RBP adds to some NPC's,but I enjoy Integration too much to revert back to Cobl Races, even though I have enough experience using the CS I probably could.
The whole point of TNR is to make every NPC unique, while keeping within the Lore. The TNR plugins do an excellent job of this.
I do have to agree with Arkngt on the hair issue, TNR allows less variation overall and prevents the hair issues in game.