Compass with quest objective marker?! : V - Skyrim

» Mon May 02, 2011 7:24 pm

The compass in Oblivion compared to following directions in MW took a step back in my opinion, but if you're on consoles and that's the way the game is, svck it up. If you're on PC just mod it out, or wait for someone else to. You can't hold it against Beth if they want to focus on cool things like dragon fights instead of hours of dialogue spelling out where a location is they could easily just scribble on to your map with a red marker on it. Yes MW had a cool system of "go here and here then take a left" directions, but sometimes with so many of those directions we get the occasional case where the directions were wrong, or they are so obscure we end up googling where we're supposed to go.

If you're that upset about a marker telling you where to go, just roleplay that your character is good at remembering directions and that the quest giver slipped you a note telling you where to go lol.. don't get all crazy about it.

At the very least make it optional. I should not have to wait for a mod.

» Tue May 03, 2011 2:23 am

At the very least make it optional. I should not have to wait for a mod.

The only problem with that is if they haven't produced any dialogue like they did with MW. If we didn't have a quest marker we had real directions that could guide us somewhere. If they haven't implemented it like they did in MW how are we going to get anywhere without a map marker? There were loads of quests where we couldn't have found a specific cave in OB if we didn't have a marker, because the quest giver didn't specify where it was. All I'm trying to say with this is, if it's optional it needs something to supplement it we choose to have it off. Otherwise why make it optional?

» Mon May 02, 2011 10:47 pm

Our opinions on getting crazy about it are probably just different then. Talking about spoon feeding baby food and sugar addled 12 year olds is kind of a crazy talk when you're talking about a map marker.

I liked MW's way of directions better than OB's. If they go with something more like OB's, get over it and hope that if enough people agree that it should be like MW they will implement that in the next TES. Don't insult people (including the people who make the game for you and put in map markers) by calling them sugar addled 12 year olds or any kind of nonsense like that.

I'm sure you know what a simile is. It is a figure of speech.
Make markers optional. Thus making everybody happy.
Sounds simple to me.

I'll still hold them in low regard, though.

» Tue May 03, 2011 7:01 am

The Pale Pass quest in Oblivion was ruined for me because of the objective marker. I was given a map which laid out the directions to find the entrance. As I approached the first landmark found on the map the entrance popped up on my compass, completely ruined the sense of discovery and accomplishment that would have been achieved in finding the entrance using the map. Needless to say, I'm hoping it doesn't work the same as it did in Oblivion.

» Tue May 03, 2011 7:47 am

I'm sure you know what a simile is. It is a figure of speech.
Make markers optional. Thus making everybody happy.
Sounds simple to me.

I'll still hold it in low regard, though.

Please reply to my last post on the problems with making it optional. How would they get around the lack of direction without map markers or putting in lots of new dialogue. Other than those two things (the first definitely sounds simple to me, the second not as much) how would they implement it in a simple way?

How would making it optional to turn off and directing you work hand in hand if they haven't taken the time to make a lot of dialogue to direct us?

» Tue May 03, 2011 6:50 am

I don't like this AT ALL. Atleast make it optional.

» Tue May 03, 2011 1:33 am

The quest objective marker is not in and of itself a bad thing. It's a rather convenient way to automatically mark an objective, which is perfectly fine if you know exactly where it is, e.g. an abandoned fort someone has marked on your map, an important official who's in the same place every day, etc. When it's bad is when the thing that's marked is something you're supposed to be searching for. It was stupid that they told you exactly where Savilla's Stone was, or where to find Reynald Jemane's twin. In situations like that there should be no marker set, because it ruins the quest. Fallout 3 handled this a little bit better at times, but New Vegas (if I recall correctly, been some time since I played) handled it much better.

It's just like level scaling. It's all a matter of how it's handled. Oblivion handled it poorly. Skyrim can use it to be great if they implement it properly.

» Mon May 02, 2011 9:40 pm

Please reply to my last post on the problems with making it optional. How would they get around the lack of direction without map markers or putting in lots of new dialogue. Other than those two things (the first definitely sounds simple to me, the second not as much) how would they implement it in a simple way?

How would making it optional to turn off and directing you work hand in hand if they haven't taken the time to make a lot of dialogue to direct us?

Sorry, I overlooked your post.
You raise a valid objection i had not foreseen.

In principle it would be circumventable through dialogue. But If Radiant Story is able to change the quest location, them a problem arises, because dialogue would have to be recorded for every possible quest location...which isn't happening.

hmmm...we just might have a problem here. I will have to think this through.

Thanks for your input!

» Tue May 03, 2011 9:15 am

The quest objective marker is not in and of itself a bad thing. It's a rather convenient way to automatically mark an objective, which is perfectly fine if you know exactly where it is, e.g. an abandoned fort someone has marked on your map, an important official who's in the same place every day, etc. When it's bad is when the thing that's marked is something you're supposed to be searching for. It was stupid that they told you exactly where Savilla's Stone was, or where to find Reynald Jemane's twin. In situations like that there should be no marker set, because it ruins the quest. Fallout 3 handled this a little bit better at times, but New Vegas (if I recall correctly, been some time since I played) handled it much better.

It's just like level scaling. It's all a matter of how it's handled. Oblivion handled it poorly. Skyrim can use it to be great if they implement it properly.

+1

Said perfectly.

» Tue May 03, 2011 8:41 am

The quest objective marker is not in and of itself a bad thing. It's a rather convenient way to automatically mark an objective, which is perfectly fine if you know exactly where it is, e.g. an abandoned fort someone has marked on your map, an important official who's in the same place every day, etc. When it's bad is when the thing that's marked is something you're supposed to be searching for. It was stupid that they told you exactly where Savilla's Stone was, or where to find Reynald Jemane's twin. In situations like that there should be no marker set, because it ruins the quest. Fallout 3 handled this a little bit better at times, but New Vegas (if I recall correctly, been some time since I played) handled it much better.

It's just like level scaling. It's all a matter of how it's handled. Oblivion handled it poorly. Skyrim can use it to be great if they implement it properly.

+1 from me too.

» Tue May 03, 2011 10:02 am

Sorry, I overlooked your post.
You raise a valid objection i had not foreseen.

In principle it would be circumventable through dialogue. But If Radiant Story is able to change the quest location, them a problem arises, because dialogue would have to be recorded for every possible quest location...which isn't happening.

hmmm...we just might have a problem here. I will have to think this through.

Thanks for your input!

Or the dialog can just not say the name of the location but the name will appear in your journal. That way the radiant story works out and extra audio won't have to be recorded.

» Tue May 03, 2011 2:23 am

Or the dialog can just not say the name of the location but the name will appear in your journal. That way the radiant story works out and extra audio won't have to be recorded.

That does sound like a lesser evil.

» Mon May 02, 2011 11:46 pm

What is the problem with a compas?

There's nothing wrong with a compass, every adventurer should have one to know which direction they're going. What is wrong is when there's the pizza slice that tells you exactly where to go, along with the lack of NPCs giving any sort of direction. The biggest problem with OB is that nearly every quest required one to use the map marker, as every quest was built around it due to the lack of any real coherent directions.

If there is going to definitely be a quest maker, it should only be for the general area. For example:
PC: I'd like to have another FG job
Fighters Guild Person: Sure, we were given a contract to clear this valley of giants, who have been harassing the nearby farmers and killing their livestock. Here is the location of the valley (marks the valley on the map). Now get to it.
*PC goes to the valley*
PC: Okay, time to find all the giants (there is no quest maker showing the location of where the giants are exactly, just the valley).

Or

PC: Hail magister. What tasks do you wish for me to complete?
Magister: I need you to collect some Snaple Mushrooms. The best places to find them would be at X, Y, and Z. Here, I'll mark those locations (marks the three areas). Now get to it
*PC goes to X*
PC: Time to find those mushrooms (only the location of X is marked, not the mushrooms themselves. The PC needs to find it on their own)

Of course, some NPCs should only know a vague sense where something is. To help the PC, they'll mention some landmarks for the PC to keep an eye out for. What I do not want brought back is some CIA tracking device.

» Tue May 03, 2011 7:55 am

I guess I'm turning off the HUD (we can still do that, right?)... I don't want this nav-bar nonsense on my screen

» Tue May 03, 2011 7:35 am

I guess I'm turning off the HUD (we can still do that, right?)... I don't want this nav-bar nonsense on my screen

Nobody really knows. That's the problem.

» Tue May 03, 2011 4:29 am

I guess I'm turning off the HUD (we can still do that, right?)... I don't want this nav-bar nonsense on my screen

If you're on PC you can just find the relevant texture and replace it with a transparent one. Should work for quest markers, compass icons. Just about anything.
I has it for Oblivion and it works perfectly.

Easy to do and problem solved, as long as there are directions... hehe (which I very much think there is).

» Mon May 02, 2011 8:01 pm

If you're on PC you can just find the relevant texture and replace it with a transparent one. Should work for quest markers, compass icons. Just about anything.
I has it for Oblivion and it works perfectly.

Easy to do and problem solved, as long as there are directions... hehe (which I very much think there is).

I'm on Xbox 360 actually... I still really hope i can.

» Tue May 03, 2011 4:34 am

I'm on Xbox 360 actually... I still really hope i can.

Would be nice to see quest markers & compass icon togglable options under gameplay settings.

» Tue May 03, 2011 10:52 am

I could do without the quest objective markers but when it comes to finding people/quest givers, markers are helpful. People tend to forget that in Morrowind people were static and stood relativly in the same spot throughout the entire game, so once a quest was completed you knew where to find the quest giver; or if you were told to go talk to so-and-so at the south wall corner club, that person would be there. With the Radiant AI introduced in Oblivion, finding people/quest givers was tricky without markers as they could be anywhere, at the pub, at home or just wandering the streets. The few times in Oblivion when I needed to find someone when not having a quest acitvated it was tricky (yes it is more realistic but a pain in the but). Hopefully in Skyrim the quest objective markers are gone or scaled back as that was overly hand-holding in Oblivion but I hope they have markers for finding quest people. Just my two cents.