Tes4Edit Cleaning Guide on CS Wiki : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:22 am

It's the special cleaning instructions for KotWS that is really arcane to me.

I agree. It is arcane to me too.

I personally would not invest too much effort into it. I'd probably would do like Psymon did: install it, play it and remove it. If it does no work properly or does not cooperate while being installed, I'd get rid of it right away and look to add some other mod. There are so many nice mods out there that work that I would never invest much time and effort to make that particular one to work, especially if the author has vanished and one is left to one's own devices.

As a general remark it should be stressed that normally, a mod will work even if it is not cleaned. The simplistic assumption / perception that a mod is unplayable because it is "unclean" as per the Guide is definitely not correct! Unclean does not equivalent broken! :nono:

Usually it is still worth a try and see if it works in your installation of the game.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:32 am

Alright, thanks for the advice, everyone. Will just let it be for now.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:35 pm

Just checked this one for the heck of it and this was the result:

All in one Basemant COBL: allinonebasemant_COBLnoCM.esp

ITM 895 Removed Records: 2
UDR 895 Undeleted Records: 0

Nothing shocking just thought i should mention it.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:14 am

Took my first look at the CS Wiki list in ages. I had forgotten that Knights of the Nine needs cleaning. I did so my first play-through (different computer) but not this one. Gonna take care of that later today. I don't think I cleaned COBL Glue.esp either.

LIST ADDITION:
The ESP from Darker Regal IC Redimized ("300 Regal Imperial City 2.esp") at the very least needs some 130 references undeleted and disabled. I found no ITM but have a vague memory of cleaning that ESP long ago. Why I would do one operation but not the other makes little sense, so there may simply be no Identical to Masters records to deal with. In any case 130 UDR alone should put it on the list.

LIST SUBTRACTION:
I just downloaded the newish 1.1b version of DC_Villages. Unlike old version 1.1 its esp (same name, "Villages1.1.esp") passes TES4edit auto cleaning with flying colors, not one ITM or UDR found. Villages should be moved to the "already clean" list, or maybe left on the cleaning list but changed to say "versions prior to 1.1b require cleaning.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:53 am

Abandoned Mountain Shack should be added to the list of mods that aren't safe to clean. Cleaning it leaves a ladder and tree stump floating in mid-air.

Thanks to everybody involved in updating the list!

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:36 am

@Illius: Added, thanks.

@Decrepit: Both entries added, thanks.

@Snargelfargen: Are you sure you cleaned it properly? You may have missed an implicit dependency.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:27 am

@Snargelfargen: Are you sure you cleaned it properly? You may have missed an implicit dependency.

Hmm, as far as I could tell from the readme, it shouldn't be dependent on anything except for the 1.1 version of Oblivion. Maybe I missed something obvious though. Here are the compatibility notes from the readme:

-Patches-
The shack mod was developed running Oblivion with the 1.1 patch, so it does not require the 1.2 patch or SI, but runs fine with them.
-Harvest Flora-
There was a conflict between some versions of Harvest Flora and the wagon wheel garden introduced in the shack version R1.20. The garden has been reworked in this version (R1.21) to resolve the conflict.
-Streamline-
There have been two reports so far of issues with the animations of the door bar and coffee perking while running Steamline.
-Unique Landscapes-
The new Snowdale expansion of UL, as originally planned, included three cells occupied by the shack. Fortunately an agreement has been reached and Snowdale does not modify any of the cells used by the shack.
-Natural Vegetation-
Although Natural Vegetation and the Abandoned Mountain Shack do not conflict, they do not work well together. One of the best features of the shack is the beautiful view of Cyrodiil which is, unfortunately, blocked by the taller and more foliose trees scaled by Natural Vegetation. There is also some intrusion of leaves through the walls of the shack and privy.
-See You Sleep-
See You Sleep version 1.5 and later specifically includes compatibility with the beds in the Abandoned Mountain Shack.

Edit: I do have See you sleep 1.5.2 installed, but the bed didn't work until I installed a seperate patch available from See You Sleep's tesnexus page. So I don't think that could be the cause of the problem.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:49 pm

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1174920-list-clean-and-dirty-mods/

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:07 am

Hi - following this guide : http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/TES4Edit/Mod_cleaning_tutorial_with_TES4Edit#Checking_step_first - I checked DarknessHollows for identical to master
NOTHING showed
Next step : http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/TES4Edit/Mod_cleaning_tutorial_with_TES4Edit#Finally_cleaning_the_mod
22 records removed:

Spoiler

Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100B32D] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at -2,5)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01019567] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at 2,6)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01019550] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at 2,0)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100B2CE] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at 4,4)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100B2CD] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at 4,3)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100B2CC] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at 4,2)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01000F56] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at 2,5)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010027F7] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at -1,-11)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010027F6] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at -2,-11)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010027F5] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at -3,-11)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010027F4] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at -4,-11)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100281A] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at -1,12)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01002819] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at -2,12)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010027F9] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at 1,-11)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010027F8] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at 0,-11)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100281C] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at 1,12)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100281B] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at 0,12)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01004841] (in aaTESAWGCoveWorld "Forsaken Isle" [WRLD:01002B8E] at -8,8)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100482D] (in aaTESAWGCoveWorld "Forsaken Isle" [WRLD:01002B8E] at -8,7)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100481B] (in aaTESAWGCoveWorld "Forsaken Isle" [WRLD:01002B8E] at -7,6)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100483F] (in aaTESAWGCoveWorld "Forsaken Isle" [WRLD:01002B8E] at -9,8)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010066C1] (in aaTESAWGCoveWorld "Forsaken Isle" [WRLD:01002B8E] at 0,6)[Removing "Identical to Master" records done]  Processed Records: 23960 Removed Records: 22 Elapsed Time: 00:00

TES4EDIT 3.0.15 - too experimental ?
This needs solving

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:04 am

Hi - following this guide : http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/TES4Edit/Mod_cleaning_tutorial_with_TES4Edit#Checking_step_first - I checked DarknessHollows for identical to master
NOTHING showed
Next step : http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/TES4Edit/Mod_cleaning_tutorial_with_TES4Edit#Finally_cleaning_the_mod
22 records removed:

Spoiler

Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100B32D] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at -2,5)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01019567] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at 2,6)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01019550] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at 2,0)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100B2CE] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at 4,4)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100B2CD] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at 4,3)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100B2CC] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at 4,2)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01000F56] (in aaTESAmishhanginggardens "The Hanging Gardens" [WRLD:01019543] at 2,5)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010027F7] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at -1,-11)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010027F6] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at -2,-11)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010027F5] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at -3,-11)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010027F4] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at -4,-11)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100281A] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at -1,12)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01002819] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at -2,12)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010027F9] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at 1,-11)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010027F8] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at 0,-11)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100281C] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at 1,12)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100281B] (in aaTESADarknessHollowsWorld "Darkness Hollows" [WRLD:01005DB2] at 0,12)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01004841] (in aaTESAWGCoveWorld "Forsaken Isle" [WRLD:01002B8E] at -8,8)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100482D] (in aaTESAWGCoveWorld "Forsaken Isle" [WRLD:01002B8E] at -8,7)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100481B] (in aaTESAWGCoveWorld "Forsaken Isle" [WRLD:01002B8E] at -7,6)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0100483F] (in aaTESAWGCoveWorld "Forsaken Isle" [WRLD:01002B8E] at -9,8)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:010066C1] (in aaTESAWGCoveWorld "Forsaken Isle" [WRLD:01002B8E] at 0,6)[Removing "Identical to Master" records done]  Processed Records: 23960 Removed Records: 22 Elapsed Time: 00:00

TES4EDIT 3.0.15 - too experimental ?
This needs solving

...What?

There is nothing strange about that. The filter doesn't change any records, it just scans for specific records. Once you have applied the standard mod cleaning filter, you can then remove the ITM records and Undelete. This is normal behavior you have just described.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:23 am

TES4EDIT 3.0.15 - too experimental ?
This needs solving

What you're seeing is perfectly normal. DarknessHollows has a few stray cells the CS saves whenever someone works on the mod. They're part of non-vanilla worldspaces and are outside the normal play area. Technically they don't NEED to be cleaned out but it won't hurt a thing if they are and it does save some memory in game when there's not as many useless cells to track.

Incidentally this has been a feature of tes4edit since the 2.5.x series. It's nothing new.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:29 am

Hmm - in the guide I linked to it says that I can preview the to-be-removed-records by applying some particular filters (http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Image:Pic100-Filter_Options_for_checking.png) and then remove them after applying some other filters - so my question is why on applying the first set of filters I see nothing - is the answer that those records are not part of Oblivion.esm and the first filter shows only Identical to master for Oblivion.esm - (as DH has no other masters nor I load any other espmS) ?

EDIT : I did not really believe that tes4edit was to blame - just as long as I was using 2.5.3, whenever a mod had records removed those would show in the preview - when nothing was shown in the preview nothing was removed.

Tes4edit I never found any really exhaustive documentation on unfortunately (there's for fosedit IIRC)

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:25 pm

Hmm - in the guide I linked to it says that I can preview the to-be-removed-records by applying some particular filters (http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Image:Pic100-Filter_Options_for_checking.png) and then remove them after applying some other filters - so my question is why on applying the first set of filters I see nothing - is the answer that those records are not part of Oblivion.esm and the first filter shows only Identical to master for Oblivion.esm - (as DH has no other masters nor I load any other espmS) ?

EDIT : I did not really believe that tes4edit was to blame - just as long as I was using 2.5.3, whenever a mod had records removed those would show in the preview - when nothing was shown in the preview nothing was removed.

Tes4edit I never found any really exhaustive documentation on unfortunately (there's for fosedit IIRC)

FO3Edit is basically the same. Warrudar recommnends using that manual for TES4Edit. There are also some usage tips in the TES4Edit thread, if you can dig it up. I'm using the experimental version and have been for a quite a while without any problems.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:55 pm

FO3Edit is basically the same. Warrudar recommnends using that manual for TES4Edit. There are also some usage tips in the TES4Edit thread, if you can dig it up. I'm using the experimental version and have been for a quite a while without any problems.

Thanks - so the dirty records not showing up with the http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Image:Pic100-Filter_Options_for_checking.png on was due to them not being present in Oblivion.esm ?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:23 am

Thanks - so the dirty records not showing up with the http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Image:Pic100-Filter_Options_for_checking.png on was due to them not being present in Oblivion.esm ?

Yes, I would say so, from Arthmoor's explanation. He said those records are outside vanilla worldspaces, so that means that they aren't in Oblivion.esm. When you are cleaning a mod and removing records that are identical to a master, it doesn't have to be Oblivion.esm. For example, if you clean a patch, you need to make sure TES4Edit has loaded the master of the patch. Then your cleaning process will remove any records in the patch that are identical to the patch's master. When you are cleaning a "simple" mod, then the identical records will be from Oblivion.esm. But if you start cleaning more complex mods, you need to make sure you load their masters in addition to Oblivion.esm. That's what the cleaning guide refers to as implicit masters and why you need to be careful when cleaning certain mods.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:52 pm

Yes, I would say so, from Arthmoor's explanation. He said those records are outside vanilla worldspaces, so that means that they aren't in Oblivion.esm. When you are cleaning a mod and removing records that are identical to a master, it doesn't have to be Oblivion.esm. For example, if you clean a patch, you need to make sure TES4Edit has loaded the master of the patch. Then your cleaning process will remove any records in the patch that are identical to the patch's master. When you are cleaning a "simple" mod, then the identical records will be from Oblivion.esm. But if you start cleaning more complex mods, you need to make sure you load their masters in addition to Oblivion.esm. That's what the cleaning guide refers to as implicit masters and why you need to be careful when cleaning certain mods.

Hmm - I know - this particular one has only Ob.esm as master and I only loaded Ob.esm in tES4