I suspect there will be no separate merchantile skill, make smore sense if Speechcraft and merchantile are the same, otherwise the perks will be exactly like that, get more money.. Creative indeed. Not really worth as a skill if the perks don't make sense imo. Much easier to have them together, meaning you can specialize within the skill to either a master trader, a silver tounged devil or both with enough time.

Well from what todd said awhile back there are two communcations skills so mercantile is very likely in.

I can see mercantile perk lines for carry cap with packrat strongback and others...

I can see perks for getting access to special inventory and illegal/black market inventory...

I can see perks for selling stolen goods.. getting better prices... the shopkeeper having more money...

I can also see mercantile helping you bribe people and hire followers who otherwise wouldnt hire on with you or would charge too much..

I can also see mercantile giving access to caravans or making them help you if your in trouble and they are near.

I can also see it allowing you to actualy improve the economy of a village or city via something you only get to use if you have the perk needed to know hwo to do it.. like improved windmills sawmills and farming...

Game Revolution stated:

"This concept of integrated visual interfaces expands to the progression system, which has you look to the stars for your stats. Each of your 18 skills - be it One-Handed, Conjuration, or Heavy Armor - is a constellation, a perfect representation for a skill tree."

This means instead of just Armor there will most likely be a Heavy Armor and Light Armor skill.

Edit: Also:

But if perchance a bandit foolishly brings your strolling daydream to an end, you have every reason and ability to inflict some consequences. With both your left and right hands, you can equip the standard sword and shield for balanced offense and defense, or any two-hand configuration of bow, dagger, mace, or fist. Those magically inclined can hold spells, one in each hand, and can cast them rapidly, charge them for more power, or even charge and combine them together, like in Fable III, for some spell-woven destruction.

So it seems Hand to Hand is in the game in some way.

Very well spotted. Here's another one off topic that most people seem to have missed. On the first page of GI's Building better combat, it says sword perks give you a better chance of a critical hit, seems the old Daggerfall skill is back, in perk form.

Oh thank god. I was hoping there was an armor skill I was worried as armor is a passive skill and they seemed to not like em any more.

Still we dont know if they combined sneak and security.. god I hope they did or mercantile and speechcraft to get light armor in stealth...

Of the two id be more hopeful merc and speech were just speechcraft as I hate blah blahing around to get that up but we all sell stuff...

Thats dang good news.

I still dont expect hand to hand to be a seprate skill but I am beginig to think it just might be.

And stealth looks better then I had expected with a light armor skill in it.

If this is the case, and 'Archery' is indeed added into two-handed, then that frees up yet another skill slot. And so, both Mercantile AND Light Armour can be added in, unless of course there is the option of another new skill. I would personally prefer to have the two types of armour, as it gives more choice.

By the way, do we yet know whether armour will work like Oblivion or Fallout; i.e. separate pieces or one big whole set? (Again, i would prefer individual pieces...)

Hand-to-hand more than merits it's own skill,i've said many,many times as to why. You could have alot of perks for it.
I also agree with another poster that mercantile wouldn't have many perks ,and i believe speechcraft does exactly the same thing and more.I also thought security and sneak would of been combined,but now given we know the three missing skill's i'm not so sure.Though i do believe the two go hand-in-hand,but that's my opinion. As for one armour skill ,i would have no problem with it.But that Would leave maybe one or two slots open for something else. Hand-to-hand though,needs to be it's own skill in my opinion.

All we have is an old Pete Hines tweet that simply said "This isn't Fallout."

[Why do people go on about sneak and security being combined, they are totally different skills]

The way using the bow was described in some of the articles I've read it sounds like using the bow might be concidered using a two handed weapon. Taking out archery since it only covers one weapon would make room for one of the missing skills like speachcraft or mercantile.

Yes,they are different skills....But ,when breaking in to somewhere,whether to steal,or murder etc,you'll naturally want to do that undetected.So in my opinion it would make sense to combine it with sneak. Plus,i don't really know how many useful/good perks you could have for security.Especially if it's as easy as it was in oblivion. If it's done differently and has enough decent perks then fair enough,other-wise i say add it with sneak.

Slightly off topic: Regarding sneak and sneak attacks,i would like a sneak attack bonus with two handed weapons,this time around. I feel if you get close regardless of weapon we should have a bonus ( maybe ).

They have mentioned the increased number of traps and the use of puzzles, so security can now have perks related to more than just lockpicking.

The problem I have with them being combined is everything else has similar skills, axes aren't so different than maces, getting information of a beggar isn't so different from haggling with a shopkeeper, but the skills required to pick locks and disarm traps are totally different to tip-toeing and hiding in shadows. I think it would be a great shame if they were combined, practicing one should not enable you to get better at the other, it makes no sense.

I do really understand where you're coming from,and given the fact althetics and acrobatics aren't there it's probably it's own skill. With the extra traps and so on,you do have a good point,but lockpicking aswell ,should not be has easy as in oblivion,that would also give it more weight to being it's own skill again.Either way i would be happy. But if it was mixed with sneak,i could see why also.But like i said,with the puzzles and traps etc,you do have a valid point.

One skill i wouldn't like to return though is mercantile,i'm a ferm believer that speechcraft covers all bases there,in my opinion.
And hope hand-to-hand is still there,it has so much potential in my opinion.

Why not create skill thats will merge hand to hand acrobatics and athletics since they all depend on character body constitution and will included for example some leveled perks with certain requirements?

Endurance perk: resistance to weapon damage, increase disease resistance, better poisons resistance, Health regeneration outside of combat, increase Health regeneration, allow Health regeneration in combat, increase Fatigue regeneration, chance resist stagger and recoil on enemy strike

Speed perk: increase character speed, increase chance resist stagger and recoil on enemy strike, increase chance make enemy stagger and recoil in combat, increase Sprint speed, allow regeneration of fatigue when running (not sprinting), decrease fatigue usage for sprinting, allow swim faster, allow attack while jumping, suffer less fatigue loss for jumps, can dodge in combat.

Hand to hand perk: different punches thats have different effects like paralyzing staggering by chances so they will rise with skill and perks levels have different animations and time usage, add more damage to health, add more damage to fatigue, ability use various kicks in combat, kicks have longer range then punches can be more devastating in jumping, can have various effects also like low kicks will drop enemy to the ground, high kicks allow stagger enemy, counter strikes with hand to hand block (thats work not like shield, its more like counter enemy hands thats have equipped weapon) and grab enemy for choke or throw or broke limbs.
There can be some racial perks levels like ability to use claws for beast races, use hammering punches for nords and orcimers, use fast strikes for elves and so on.

Such skill will level from successful strike in hand to hand combat, taken damage, successful dodged enemy strikes in combat not just from jumping and running around, thats certainly will fix Athletic and Acrobatics to be less grinding as any others skills have almost the same requirements for leveling, also enhance gameplay for martial artists, add more variability to Hand to Hand combat,
make races more unique by adding racial perks from such perk tree as starting ones or available only for certain races.
Can be usable both for Strength oriented charters and for Nimble charters also, can work together with current control layout use
both hands thats use different buttons + press both for block, use grab key (such key can be usable not only for dragging objects around), use movement keys, use jump key, use crouch/sneak key, use sprint button.
As combat skill it can achieve special combo perks when for using an special strike with some effect need to make certain inputs based on standard movements, disarming for example based on press of block then press left strike then then press grab key.

Some special perks can work for support of better blending with other combat skills
like using kick for release in clench with one handed or two handed weapon just by pressing button of not equipped with weapon hand, or use on touch spells in more fearsome way with certain leveling in mage schools skills or perks.

Mage
Alteration
Conjuration
Destruction
Illusion
Restoration
Enchanting - weapons, items, scrolls

Warrior
One-Handed Weapon - sword, axe, mace, dw
Two-Handed Weapon - sword, axe, hammer, staff
Martial Arts - h2h, unarmored perks, fist weapons (or acrobatic perks if fist weapons are out)
Fitness - armor, sprint perks, armored casting
Defense - block, parry, dodge
Smithing - weapons, armor, items (weight stones)

Thief
Marksman
Sneak - assasinate
Mechanics - lockpicking, traps, tools
Speechcraft - charm, bluff, intimidate
??
Alchemy - potion, poison, elixir or bomb

Let me explain Fitness: the more "fit" you are the heavier armor you can carry and be effective in. Armor perks to wear better armor, armored casting perks for lowering penalties and sprint perks (replaces athletics). For a bookworm mage worthless, usefully for a thief, important for a battlemage and crucial for a fighter. You level it by wearing armor..

Martial arts includes old h2h, but also unarmored and either fist weapons or some acrobatic perks.

Mechanics combines secutiry with traps and hopefully tools..


Sword and shield warrior: 4 perks
- 1h weapon of choice
- fitness (armor and sprint)
- defense (mainly block)

2h warrior: 4 perks
- 2h weapon of choice
- fitness (armor and sprint)
- defense (parry)

Dw: 5-6 perks
- 1h weapon of choice, dw perks
- fitness (armor and sprint)
- defense (dodge and/or parry)

Martial arts: 5 perks
- martial arts (h2h, unarmored, fist)
- fitness (sprint only)
- defense (dodge only)

Battlemage: 5 perks
- 1h weapon of choice
- fitness (armor and armored casting)
- alteration replaces defense (parry and doge)
- destruction

Nightblade: 4 perks
- sneak (assasinate perks)
- fitness (sprint)
- defense (dodge) or alteration
- destruction

Sry double post..

Just wondering why so many lists are assuming that light and heavy armour skills are out? One article mentioned heavy armour specifically, and nothing at all has alluded to their being removed.

Well thing is we now know there IS heavy armor and thus light armor so we now know most of the combat and stealth skill lists.


stealth has to be alchemy speechcraft light armor archery... and the last two are either sneak secuirty or security mercantile.

As for combat we now know we have smithing block heavy armor one handed two handed. I do not expect to see hand to hand as that would have been covered before now...

Now looking at it we have one hand two handed weapons we also have block and heavy armor... and smthing and........ what is the last thing a warrior would NEED?

It could still be there,but i hope it isn't.I still believe speechcraft covers it all regardless. They could add or use something more useful than mercantile. Whether your bartering speaking or whatever,speechcraft covers the lot.

It would even strengthen the speechcraft skill further,and give it plenty of meaningful perks too.

I'm personally hoping for the removal of light and heavy armour; it really halves the available armours for a player for no good reason; perks can be used for each player to specialise (quiet armour, fast armour, slow defensive armour, etc).

Security can go into Stealth as a seperate perk branch

Mercantile can go into Speechcraft as a seperate perk branch.

I'm interested in how they'll perk marksman (like the weapon specialisations for one/two-handed - I would like to add slow and powerful crossbows and fast but limited javelins).

And if mounted combat is in; a skill for that, horseriding or beastmastery (?)

Personally I would put mounted combat as perks within the individual weapon skills, one handed mounted combat and horse archer.
there is even a case for animal handling under speechcraft, though this is debatable.

i think that might be right. mercantile could easily be covered by the speechcraft-skill. also it wouldnt suprise me if light armor and heavy armor becomes one armor skill. we'll see..