Mod installation order : IV

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:52 am

Is it just the load order of the esp files, etc. that matters, or does the order of installation affect it also?

Thanks.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:25 am

On an installation like FCOM the order you install the mods is very important. Almost everyone these days is using BSA Redirection for Archive Invalidation, so the last mod that is installed will overwrite earlier installed mods. Proper Install Order is very important with any mod with meshes,textures,and BSA's - but esp's are not as critical because of BOSS.
EDIT A mod made before the Unnofficial Oblivion patches can overwrite the fixes made by a patch and cause problems in the game.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:09 pm

On an installation like FCOM the order you install the mods is very important. Almost everyone these days is using BSA Redirection for Archive Invalidation, so the last mod that is installed will overwrite earlier installed mods. Proper Install Order is very important with any mod with meshes,textures,and BSA's - but esp's are not as critical because of BOSS.
EDIT A mod made before the Unnofficial Oblivion patches can overwrite the fixes made by a patch and cause problems in the game.

I see. So far I've installed Oblivion, followed by the official patch, then the unofficial patch, then Shivering Isles, then the patches. Now I've just installed Qarl's TP3 and was told told to select BSA alteration and click update, etc. Should I change it back?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:14 am

I see. So far I've installed Oblivion, followed by the official patch, then the unofficial patch, then Shivering Isles, then the patches. Now I've just installed Qarl's TP3 and was told told to select BSA alteration and click update, etc. Should I change it back?

If you mean you now use BSA alteration then yes, switch (back) to redirection. You'll see alteration mentioned quite often in older mod documentation. The reason for that is redirection is a more recent development and didn't exist back when those mods were published. The alteration advice in those documents can be safely ignored. But do use redirection.

In the long run the best thing to do is master Wrye Bash as soon as possible (where's a bit of a learning curve) and let it handle the whole business automatically. OBMM can also handle the chore easily.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:48 am

If you mean you now use BSA alteration then yes, switch (back) to redirection. You'll see alteration mentioned quite often in older mod documentation. The reason for that is redirection is a more recent development and didn't exist back when those mods were published. The alteration advice in those documents can be safely ignored. But do use redirection.

In the long run the best thing to do is master Wrye Bash as soon as possible (where's a bit of a learning curve) and let it handle the whole business automatically. OBMM can also handle the chore easily.

I see. But after using alteration I did notice fairly significant changes on some textures, upon removing it the textures reverted. Then I enabled it, it reappeared, then going back to redirection this time it stayed the same. What is going on?

Also, can someone recommend to me the very best distant landscape texture replacement? I have one, but I've seen screenshots of better ones.

Thanks very much.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:20 am

I see. But after using alteration I did notice fairly significant changes on some textures, upon removing it the textures reverted. Then I enabled it, it reappeared, then going back to redirection this time it stayed the same. What is going on?

Also, can someone recommend to me the very best distant landscape texture replacement? I have one, but I've seen screenshots of better ones.

Thanks very much.

Nothing necessarily wrong with alteration. It's just not the preferred method these days. There's at least one article floating around somewhere that explains the difference between methods. Can't recall where I saw it at the moment.

EDIT: Here's one http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/archiveinvalidation.html that, amongst other things, describes the various methods. It's fairly old, so some details might be outdated. But it should give you a decent explanation of why redirection is preferred over alteration.

As to Landscape LOD, my current favorite is http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18497 (converted from OMOD to BAIN to better meet my needs). I've tried other but always return to it. It certainly has its faults, and none of the replacement LOD packs is perfect (and don't take into account mod-altered landscape). But when all gels the results are highly satisfying. A word of warning. Those 4096x4096 maps are memory intensive. Your computer might be better off with one of the better 2048x2048 packs, which offer less detail but are still a nice improvement over vanilla. No harm in trying 'em out in any case. You can always uninstall and go for a lower-res pack if need be.

Oh yeah, here's a capture showing "4096X4096 Normal Map-2048X2048 Border Regions-LOD_OMOD" at its best. http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn303/Decrepit_Waste/ESIV%20Oblivion/ImpIslePanorama1.jpg

-Decrepit-

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:59 pm

Nothing necessarily wrong with alteration. It's just not the preferred method these days. There's at least one article floating around somewhere that explains the difference between methods. Can't recall where I saw it at the moment.

EDIT: Here's one http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/archiveinvalidation.html that, amongst other things, describes the various methods. It's fairly old, so some details might be outdated. But it should give you a decent explanation of why redirection is preferred over alteration.

As to Landscape LOD, my current favorite is http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18497 (converted from OMOD to BAIN to better meet my needs). I've tried other but always return to it. It certainly has its faults, and none of the replacement LOD packs is perfect (and don't take into account mod-altered landscape). But when all gels the results are highly satisfying. A word of warning. Those 4096x4096 maps are memory intensive. Your computer might be better off with one of the better 2048x2048 packs, which offer less detail but are still a nice improvement over vanilla. No harm in trying 'em out in any case. You can always uninstall and go for a lower-res pack if need be.

Oh yeah, here's a capture showing "4096X4096 Normal Map-2048X2048 Border Regions-LOD_OMOD" at its best. http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn303/Decrepit_Waste/ESIV%20Oblivion/ImpIslePanorama1.jpg

-Decrepit-

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! I'm assuming you have the 'Almost everything visible' mod as well? Also, at which point should I install Francesco's leveled mod? Everytime I install, my game crashes after a few minutes. It's difficult to tell which mods to install first, etc.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:54 am

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! I'm assuming you have the 'Almost everything visible' mod as well? Also, at which point should I install Francesco's leveled mod? Everytime I install, my game crashes after a few minutes. It's difficult to tell which mods to install first, etc.

Aye, I run RAEWVD minus its two inner-city esps and, for the moment, city architecture sub-packages. I'm a huge fan of RAEVWD and high-res LandscapeLOD since, unlike some, I thrive on crystal clear sunshiny days when one can see from one end of Cyrodiil to the other in sharp focus. I love fog and stormy weather too, but only when they occur as part of the natural order of things, not when used solely to conceal distant scenery. My stance can be hard on framerates, but what can one do? (My computer runs the game acceptably smoothly accept in a very few specific areas in any case.)

Can't help you with Francesco. I'm one of those rare people (rare on this sub-forum) who is, if not thrilled by, perfectly content with the games basic underpinnings. As such I've not yet felt the need to install any of the major leveling/content overhauls. I recently dabbled with select portions of a rather lite and somewhat obscure overhaul but will likely remove those esps during one of my next play-sessions.

-Decrepit-

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:13 am

Aye, I run RAEWVD minus its two inner-city esps and, for the moment, city architecture sub-packages. I'm a huge fan of RAEVWD and high-res LandscapeLOD since, unlike some, I thrive on crystal clear sunshiny days when one can see from one end of Cyrodiil to the other in sharp focus. I love fog and stormy weather too, but only when they occur as part of the natural order of things, not when used solely to conceal distant scenery. My stance can be hard on framerates, but what can one do? (My computer runs the game acceptably smoothly accept in a very few specific areas in any case.)

Can't help you with Francesco. I'm one of those rare people (rare on this sub-forum) who is, if not thrilled by, perfectly content with the games basic underpinnings. As such I've not yet felt the need to install any of the major leveling/content overhauls. I recently dabbled with select portions of a rather lite and somewhat obscure overhaul but will likely remove those esps during one of my next play-sessions.

-Decrepit-

Sounds good to me. What system are you running it on? Also, that sounds just like me. I have a previous thread I created a couple of days ago asking about mods which more 'enhance' the game, rather than drastically change it, as I prefer to keep as much of the real experience intact as much as I can. Although I did mention that level-scaling seemed to be a good idea, however, I haven't even given the real thing much of a chance.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:25 pm

Sounds good to me. What system are you running it on? Also, that sounds just like me. I have a previous thread I created a couple of days ago asking about mods which more 'enhance' the game, rather than drastically change it, as I prefer to keep as much of the real experience intact as much as I can. Although I did mention that level-scaling seemed to be a good idea, however, I haven't even given the real thing much of a chance.

For once in my life I actually have two computers capable of running modern games. Both have full Oblivion installs. (I even broke down and bought a second disk copy of PC Oblivion GOTY the other week. It serves as both backup and lets me jump from one computer to the other without having to transfer Disk 1 between machines. A luxury yes, but hey, it's only $20.)

My primary machine, the one I do my serious Oblivion playing on, consists of:

Intel i7 930 CPU @ 2.8ghz (stock)
Corsair liquid CPU cooler (model 50)
ASUS Intel 1366 chipset motherboard
6gb DDR3-1600 ram (three modules)
Nvidia GTX 470 1.2gb graphics
Soundblaster X-fi PCI sound-card with an Oblivion profile in Alchemy
SATA III 1TB hard-drive set to ahci
Corsair 950 watt PSU
Cooler-Master HAF 932 full tower case with tons of fans
Windows 7 64-bit
Oblivion.exe LAA flag
Oblivion Stutter Remover Heap6/1024
Process Lasso with an Oblivion profile (not sure if this helps any, but it doesn't seem to do harm and is free to boot)
All but one mod (DropLitTorchesOBSE) and several utilities installed as BAIN packages
PyFFi Oblivion - meshes.bsa (and some mod meshes too)
Oblivion graphics settings: HDR via game menu, 2xAA/16xAF via Nvidia Control Panel

This system lets me run pretty much any graphics enhancement mod I want, within reason, though I wish the GPU had a full 2gb ram on-board. Overclocking the CPU would improve things, especially A.I processing. I had meant to do that. But the computer, when assembled, had what I deem a minor stability issue. Once every month or two I'd get a hardware related blue-screen, followed by an automatic re-boot. That's not often enough to get paranoid over, but I wasn't about to risk making things worse by overclocking. The other week I downloaded and installed a motherboard BIOS update that claims to improve stability, especially with ram modules. It's too soon to know if it fixes things, but I've had no blue-screens since updating. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best. Should it indeed remedy my minor stability woes I'll again consider a "mild" CPU overclock, to no more than 3.4ghz. (No, don't ask me about CPU overclocking techniques. It will be a new experience for me.)

I really ought to come up with a postable detailed list of enhancement recommendations, as others have. I've meant to do so for some time, but can't force myself to devote time to the project.

-Decrepit-

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:18 am

For once in my life I actually have two computers capable of running modern games. Both have full Oblivion installs. (I even broke down and bought a second disk copy of PC Oblivion GOTY the other week. It serves as both backup and lets me jump from one computer to the other without having to transfer Disk 1 between machines. A luxury yes, but hey, it's only $20.)

My primary machine, the one I do my serious Oblivion playing on, consists of:

Intel i7 930 CPU @ 2.8ghz (stock)
Corsair liquid CPU cooler (model 50)
ASUS Intel 1366 chipset motherboard
6gb DDR3-1600 ram (three modules)
Nvidia GTX 470 1.2gb graphics
Soundblaster X-fi PCI sound-card with an Oblivion profile in Alchemy
SATA III 1TB hard-drive set to ahci
Corsair 950 watt PSU
Cooler-Master HAF 932 full tower case with tons of fans
Windows 7 64-bit
Oblivion.exe LAA flag
Oblivion Stutter Remover Heap6/1024
Process Lasso with an Oblivion profile (not sure if this helps any, but it doesn't seem to do harm and is free to boot)
All but one mod (DropLitTorchesOBSE) and several utilities installed as BAIN packages
PyFFi Oblivion - meshes.bsa (and some mod meshes too)
Oblivion graphics settings: HDR via game menu, 2xAA/16xAF via Nvidia Control Panel

This system lets me run pretty much any graphics enhancement mod I want, within reason, though I wish the GPU had a full 2gb ram on-board. Overclocking the CPU would improve things, especially A.I processing. I had meant to do that. But the computer, when assembled, had what I deem a minor stability issue. Once every month or two I'd get a hardware related blue-screen, followed by an automatic re-boot. That's not often enough to get paranoid over, but I wasn't about to risk making things worse by overclocking. The other week I downloaded and installed a motherboard BIOS update that claims to improve stability, especially with ram modules. It's too soon to know if it fixes things, but I've had no blue-screens since updating. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best. Should it indeed remedy my minor stability woes I'll again consider a "mild" CPU overclock, to no more than 3.4ghz. (No, don't ask me about CPU overclocking techniques. It will be a new experience for me.)

I really ought to come up with a postable detailed list of enhancement recommendations, as others have. I've meant to do so for some time, but can't force myself to devote time to the project.

-Decrepit-

That's a neat system! And yes, there now seems to be far too many mods out there to distinguish between which mods would be the most ideal to install. I'm having to hunt through a whole bunch of them myself!

However, one of the current mods I'm trying to install is the Immersive Interiors, which requires All Natural, which in turn requires Wrye Bash, as you'd mentioned. My question is, how do I properly install this? I have the main file, and it comes up with a list of requirements I need to have. So I've tried downloading as many of them as I can, but I'm missing a few. I missed out one or two of the components and installed anyway. It ran just fine apparently, although I had no idea what I was doing. How do I install this effectively and properly without any problems? Which components do I need?

Cheers for any help!

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:23 am

That's a neat system! And yes, there now seems to be far too many mods out there to distinguish between which mods would be the most ideal to install. I'm having to hunt through a whole bunch of them myself!

However, one of the current mods I'm trying to install is the Immersive Interiors, which requires All Natural, which in turn requires Wrye Bash, as you'd mentioned. My question is, how do I properly install this? I have the main file, and it comes up with a list of requirements I need to have. So I've tried downloading as many of them as I can, but I'm missing a few. I missed out one or two of the components and installed anyway. It ran just fine apparently, although I had no idea what I was doing. How do I install this effectively and properly without any problems? Which components do I need?

Cheers for any help!

Ignoring the blasphemy of the previous two sentences, I cannot believe you are seriously asking this question. Please tell me you're just late for April Fools. :facepalm:

Spoilered below is my uncensored reply:

Spoiler

It may come as a surprise to you, but mods often come with a file called "Readme" or a file with that word in their name. This file is in fact a document intended for the user to read, hence its name. If you open up said file, you might find such wonders as the name of the mod, the author(s), and information about the mod.

Sometimes, mod authors even include installation instructions inside readmes! Can you believe that? That's incredible, isn't it? Just think, all those mod authors banging away at their keyboards to write instructions for you. Good thing too, because some mods can be quite complicated to install. From what I've heard, these instructions they write are pretty much spot-on too, and many sensible users follow them without issues.

Now, you've already come across mods that need other mods. Whoa, that's some pretty advanced stuff there, you're doing well! Luckily for you though, you generally don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out what needs what, because once again mod authors have come to the rescue. These talented individuals even manage to list what mods their mod needs in the very same "Readme" document that you find all the other wonderful information about their mod. This makes your job a lot easier - all you need to do is search for the things listed on TES Nexus or Google, then download and install them.

But wait, you cry! Download and install them, you make it sound so simple! How can that be? Well, remember that these things you are searching for and need to download and install are also mods, or perhaps in other cases may be programs. If they're mods, it's almost certain that they too contain a most wonderful readme file that contains their installation instructions. You see, mods are just like onions, they have layers. If they're a program, well, even better, because you just need to run the installer and everything will be done for you almost automatically with only a few simple questions for you to answer. For mods, all you need to do is download them from whatever site you've found them at, then open up the archive they came in (see: Opening Archives For ~~Morons~~ Dummies, pg. 254). Once opened, you should be able to spot the "Readme" file. Careful though, it might be hidden inside another folder! Once you've found the readme, you can open it and use the information inside to install the required mod. Problem solved!

So, you now know how to find out how to install a mod, how to find out what its requirements are if it has any, how to get those requirements, how to install those requirements and can go happily on your way. Boy, I'll bet you sure are glad "Readme" files exist!

Perhaps you'd like to RTFM, instead of asking ridiculous questions.

I was going to continue the condescending sarcasm for a while longer, but the strain proved too much...

Here's the nice version: read the readme.

EDIT: Spoilered my original reply. I think it's a fine piece of sarcasm, but I realise some sensitively-minded people might complain about it.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:06 pm

Ignoring the blasphemy of the previous two sentences, I cannot believe you are seriously asking this question. Please tell me you're just late for April Fools. :facepalm:

Spoilered below is my uncensored reply:

Spoiler

It may come as a surprise to you, but mods often come with a file called "Readme" or a file with that word in their name. This file is in fact a document intended for the user to read, hence its name. If you open up said file, you might find such wonders as the name of the mod, the author(s), and information about the mod.

Sometimes, mod authors even include installation instructions inside readmes! Can you believe that? That's incredible, isn't it? Just think, all those mod authors banging away at their keyboards to write instructions for you. Good thing too, because some mods can be quite complicated to install. From what I've heard, these instructions they write are pretty much spot-on too, and many sensible users follow them without issues.

Now, you've already come across mods that need other mods. Whoa, that's some pretty advanced stuff there, you're doing well! Luckily for you though, you generally don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out what needs what, because once again mod authors have come to the rescue. These talented individuals even manage to list what mods their mod needs in the very same "Readme" document that you find all the other wonderful information about their mod. This makes your job a lot easier - all you need to do is search for the things listed on TES Nexus or Google, then download and install them.

But wait, you cry! Download and install them, you make it sound so simple! How can that be? Well, remember that these things you are searching for and need to download and install are also mods, or perhaps in other cases may be programs. If they're mods, it's almost certain that they too contain a most wonderful readme file that contains their installation instructions. You see, mods are just like onions, they have layers. If they're a program, well, even better, because you just need to run the installer and everything will be done for you almost automatically with only a few simple questions for you to answer. For mods, all you need to do is download them from whatever site you've found them at, then open up the archive they came in (see: Opening Archives For ~~Morons~~ Dummies, pg. 254). Once opened, you should be able to spot the "Readme" file. Careful though, it might be hidden inside another folder! Once you've found the readme, you can open it and use the information inside to install the required mod. Problem solved!

So, you now know how to find out how to install a mod, how to find out what its requirements are if it has any, how to get those requirements, how to install those requirements and can go happily on your way. Boy, I'll bet you sure are glad "Readme" files exist!

Perhaps you'd like to RTFM, instead of asking ridiculous questions.

I was going to continue the condescending sarcasm for a while longer, but the strain proved too much...

Here's the nice version: read the readme.

EDIT: Spoilered my original reply. I think it's a fine piece of sarcasm, but I realise some sensitively-minded people might complain about it.

Shortly after my response, I'd found the readme in the description of the file download, rather than the actual file itself where I was expeting to find it. I do apologise, as I'm highly unfamiliar and not used to all the Oblivion modding, downloading and navigation of many of the sites, etc. But I am confident enough in saying that your response was totally unnecessary and clearly shows you're a GIGANTIC ... oh wait, maybe I should put my response in a 'spoiler', so as to not offend those actually decent people on this forum that have been adequately polite and helpful, without the need to resort to petty immature, time-wasting comments, bar the exception of this one.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:18 pm

Shortly after my response, I'd found the readme in the description of the file download, rather than the actual file itself where I was expeting to find it. I do apologise, as I'm highly unfamiliar and not used to all the Oblivion modding, downloading and navigation of many of the sites, etc. But I am confident enough in saying that your response was totally unnecessary and clearly shows you're a GIGANTIC ... oh wait, maybe I should put my response in a 'spoiler', so as to not offend those actually decent people on this forum that have been adequately polite and helpful, without the need to resort to petty immature, time-wasting comments, bar the exception of this one.

Well, I can only suggest that you make use of the Edit button in future to prevent people making replies that are no longer valid to your situation, it's quite good at avoiding confusion and for re-wording replies that were hastily written, etc.

If you're highly unfamiliar with Oblivion modding, I suggest that you start reading up on it, there's a wealth of information out there that's written for newbies such as yourself to help you get to grips with the subject. Quite often referenced are TESIV:POSItive site and the Wrye Bash Pictorial Guide, so you might want to check them out first, after the forum sticky of course.

Since you're unfamiliar with me in particular, people not reading readmes is somewhat of a personal berserk button, as some other forum members might have picked up on. I hope the rest of my reply, not to mention my post history in general, shows that I am fully capable of being helpful. My response was indeed totally unnecessary, but I had fun writing it, it did no lasting damage and served to illustrate a point. I'm not aware that I have a reputation of being a gigantic anything, but I suppose people will PM all sorts...

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:06 am

Well, I can only suggest that you make use of the Edit button in future to prevent people making replies that are no longer valid to your situation, it's quite good at avoiding confusion and for re-wording replies that were hastily written, etc.

If you're highly unfamiliar with Oblivion modding, I suggest that you start reading up on it, there's a wealth of information out there that's written for newbies such as yourself to help you get to grips with the subject. Quite often referenced are TESIV:POSItive site and the Wrye Bash Pictorial Guide, so you might want to check them out first, after the forum sticky of course.

Since you're unfamiliar with me in particular, people not reading readmes is somewhat of a personal berserk button, as some other forum members might have picked up on. I hope the rest of my reply, not to mention my post history in general, shows that I am fully capable of being helpful. My response was indeed totally unnecessary, but I had fun writing it, it did no lasting damage and served to illustrate a point. I'm not aware that I have a reputation of being a gigantic anything, but I suppose people will PM all sorts...

Well, I didn't actually have a gigantic anything in mind at all really, just that it seemed a little unecessary as I said. I can see and appreciate how much you've contributed to the forum in general also, so I can understand that it probably does get extremely irritating after a while... I can relate to situations like that myself. I'll remember the edit button also