Help needed on tracking down CTD problem : IV

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:01 am

I have recently got a new PC and have been experiencing problems with CTDs. As you can see below, I have done the usual things to try and isolate the problem without much success. So I am really hoping that someone with more knowledge and intelligence than me, can suggest how I might go about diagnosing and isolating the cause of the CTD.

I removed all the mods and then starting adding batches of mods to isolate the problem. What I found is that the problem remains, but happens more quickly the more mods I have installed. So with very few mods, I have to keep cycling around the test I have been performing before the crash happens.

My test involves loading a saved game that places me outside Chorrol. I go into Chorrol and visit the castle then one of the Inns. I then exit the city and fast travel to a cave. I enter the cave then exit again and fast travel back to Chorrol. I repeat this sequence until the CTD happens. The CTD has been occurring on entering or exiting buildings. Also on entering or exiting Chorrol and on entering or exiting the cave.

Changes to my original config include having Oblivion installed on a solid state disk (SSD), Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit on a different SSD and the save games on a normal disk drive (ie thgere are three drives involved).

Spec is...
Processor: Intel® Core™ i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz, 3401 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
RAM: 8 GB
Display: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580
VRam: 1.50 GB
Sound: Creative X-Fi Audio Processor (WDM)

My Load Order (which is only about half the mods I started with) is...

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  underdark.esm02  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.3]03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]04  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]05  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm06  ScreenEffects.esm**  Essential_Merchants.esp07  TRoN.esp**  TRoN Vwalk.esp**  TNR ALL RACES FINAL Males.esp**  TNR - ShiveringIsles no helms Males + DS + GS.esp**  Handsome_Gents_Addon.esp**  Handsome_Gents_DB_Addon.esp**  Handsome_Gents_SI.esp**  Handsome_Gents_Vampires.esp**  Handsome_Gents_Vampires_50.esp**  Handsome_Gents_Bonus.esp08  DKImperials.esp++  GrassFix.esp09  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.5]0A  Permanent Effects from Quest Items fix.esp++  Dion MS38 Package Fix.esp0B  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0C  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.2]**  Oblivion Vwalk UOS.esp**  DLCShiveringIsles Vwalk UOS.esp**  DLCShiveringIsles Vwalk DG_DS UOS.esp0D  Sensual Female NPCs.esp0E  Sensual Loading Screens.esp0F  Sensual Loading Screens - Arbour Watch.esp10  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.3]11  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.3]12  Immersive Interiors.esp  [Version 0.7]++  phinix-waterfix.esp13  Rainbows.esp14  AliveWaters.esp15  AFK_PrayerIdles.esp  [Version 1.0]++  Faction_Rank_Fix-5862.esp16  PTFallingStars.esp17  RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp  [Version 1.7]18  Trainer_Book.esp19  PTRoamingNPCs.esp**  PTRoamingNPCs Vwalk.esp1A  BookTrackerOBSE.esp1B  Display Stats.esp  [Version 1.3]1C  Enhanced Seasons.esp  [Version 1.3.1]1D  FormID Finder4.esp1E  Purge Cell Buffers - Loading.esp  [Version 1.0.0]1F  Dynamic Map.esp  [Version 2.0]20  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.9]21  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.5]22  sr_super_hotkeys.esp  [Version 0.54]23  DLCOrrery.esp24  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]**  DLCOrrery Vwalk.esp25  DLCVileLair.esp26  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]27  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp28  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]**  DLCMehrunesRazor Vwalk UOP.esp29  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]++  MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp**  EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer.esp**  HGEC_special_armor_repl.esp2A  DLCThievesDen.esp2B  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]**  DLCThievesDen Vwalk UOP.esp++  TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp  [Version 1.40Alpha]2C  TamrielTravellers.esp  [Version 1.39c]**  TamrielTravellers Vwalk.esp++  TamrielTravellersFactionAll.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp  [Version 1.39c]2D  ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp  [Version 1.39c]**  ShiveringIsleTravellers Vwalk.esp++  ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions.esp  [Version 1.39c]2E  EM_CompInnsleeping.esp  [Version 0.9]2F  001_LM_ElvenGardenRetreat.esp30  AuriCloudRulerAddons.esp31  Better Benirus Manor - Helping Hands.esp32  Sensual Outfits for Female NPCs.esp33  Better Benirus Manor.esp  [Version 4.71]34  Better Benirus Manor - AN Patch - Natural.esp35  Fireflys Extended Cities.esp**  Fireflys Extended Cities Vwalk.esp36  CoO1.esp37  Abriael_Human.esp38  Imperial City Suburbs.esp**  Imperial City Suburbs Vwalk.esp39  JDNT_Brina Cross.esp**  JDNT_Brina Cross Vwalk.esp3A  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp3B  Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp**  Kvatch Rebuilt Vwalk.esp3C  GlenvarCastle.esp**  GlenvarCastle Vwalk.esp3D  RumpleMod.esp**  RumpleMod Vwalk.esp3E  Tavern-Goers 2.esp**  Tavern-Goers 2 Vwalk.esp3F  The Duelists.esp**  The Duelists Vwalk.esp40  Cyrodiil Travel Services.esp  [Version 2.0.7]**  Cyrodiil Travel Services Vwalk.esp41  DLCFrostcrag.esp42  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]43  BrumaMGRestored.esp**  BrumaMGRestored Vwalk.esp44  BrumaMGRestored-Frostcrag.esp**  DLCFrostcrag Vwalk.esp45  Knights.esp46  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1]**  Knights Vwalk UOP.esp**  Knights Vwalk UOP CW.esp**  EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp47  AFK_Weye.esp  [Version 2.2.Non-COBL]**  AFK_Weye Vwalk.esp48  ShezriesTownsMaster.esp**  ShezriesTownsMaster Vwalk.esp49  Feldscar.esp  [Version 1.0.9]**  Feldscar Vwalk.esp4A  Vergayun.esp  [Version 1.0.7]**  Vergayun Vwalk.esp4B  Faregyl.esp  [Version 2.0.2]**  Faregyl Vwalk.esp4C  PTMudwater.esp**  PTMudwater Vwalk.esp4D  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts.esp**  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts Vwalk.esp4E  Frostcrag Village.esp  [Version 1.0.1]**  Frostcrag Village Vwalk.esp++  KoldornsImprovedLava2.esp4F  Bag of Holding.esp  [Version 1.5.0]50  Colourwheels sixy Imperial Legion.esp**  Colourwheels sixy Imperial Legion Vwalk.esp51  Colourwheels sixy Skyrim Outpost HGEC.esp**  Colourwheels sixy Skyrim Outpost HGEC Vwalk.esp52  HUD Status Bars.esp  [Version 4.1.1]53  ImmersiveWait.esp++  sixy Dark Seducer & Golden Saint Armour.esp54  SD Skill Diary.esp  [Version 2.3]55  eyja.esp**  eyja Vwalk.esp56  1em_Vilja.esp  [Version 3.1]57  1em_Vilja_Neck_Seam_Concealer.esp++  1em_Vilja_coolhair60.esp58  Elaborate Eyes and Eyelashes.esp59  Think to Yourself.esp++  Life Detected - OMOD.esp5A  UnderdarkSaga.esp**  UnderdarkSaga Vwalk.esp**  Laz NPC Face and Walk Overrides.esp**  Sensual Female NPCs Vwalk.esp++  Sensual Loading Screens - Replacers.esp5B  Companion Compatibility.esp**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.3]5C  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

Any suggestions as to how can go about diagnosing the cause of the CTDs will be very welcome and much appreciated.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:42 am

Are you using OSR with heap replacement?

Also, it could be an issue with Data Execution Prevention. On your control panel, go to system->advanced system settings. In the performance box, click settings. Go to the tab marked "Data Execution Prevention". You'll want to set it up like this: http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9294/depxo.jpg I had to do this in order to use the LAA patch without the game crashing when it reached the 2GB ceiling. That's for obse_loader.exe, Oblivion.exe, and the exe for the CS btw,

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:30 pm

I know that ctds can be caused by the autosave system of the game. Also it could be a problem with your test save being corrupted prior to your testing. Try shutting off autosave from the start screen of the game and creating a new save with a batch of mods enabled.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:50 pm

I don't know if this is related to your CTD issue, but the only mod I notice was this one. How much is changed in that mod from the previous version, because for me it sounds more like a test version.

++  TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp  [Version 1.40Alpha]

Another thing I wonder is what obse version are you using and how many obse plugins are installed?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:05 am

Many thanks for all the useful suggestions - very much appreciated.

Are you using OSR with heap replacement?

Also, it could be an issue with Data Execution Prevention. On your control panel, go to system->advanced system settings. In the performance box, click settings. Go to the tab marked "Data Execution Prevention". You'll want to set it up like this: http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9294/depxo.jpg I had to do this in order to use the LAA patch without the game crashing when it reached the 2GB ceiling. That's for obse_loader.exe, Oblivion.exe, and the exe for the CS btw,

I am using OSR, but have disabled heap replacement to try and eliminate that as a cause - was also crashing with heap replacement enabled and option 5.

I am using the LAA patch and applied the DEP changes you suggested - really thought this was going to fix the problem, but unfortunately I still get the CTD

I know that ctds can be caused by the autosave system of the game. Also it could be a problem with your test save being corrupted prior to your testing. Try shutting off autosave from the start screen of the game and creating a new save with a batch of mods enabled.

Double checked the autosave settings, which were all disabled except for bSaveOnInteriorExteriorSwitch. Changed this from 1 to 0, but still get the CTD.

Given this was all working very reliably before, I will try go back to a save that was done on my old system and see what that does.

I don't know if this is related to your CTD issue, but the only mod I notice was this one. How much is changed in that mod from the previous version, because for me it sounds more like a test version.

++  TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp  [Version 1.40Alpha]

Another thing I wonder is what obse version are you using and how many obse plugins are installed?

Using OBSE v20. Tried going back to 19b but that didn't help.

Here is a file list of my OBSE plugins folder...

Spoiler

 Plugins\ComponentDLLsPlugins\Construction Set Extender.dllPlugins\Construction Set Extender.iniPlugins\Elys_USV.dllPlugins\Elys_USV.lipPlugins\Elys_USV.mp3Plugins\EnhancedMusicControl.dllPlugins\FastExit2.dllPlugins\obge.dllPlugins\OBGEv2.dllPlugins\OBSE_Elys_Pluggy.dllPlugins\OBSE_Elys_Pluggy.dlxPlugins\OBSE_Elys_Pluggy.logPlugins\OBSE_Kyoma_MenuQue.dllPlugins\sr_Oblivion_Stutter_Remover.dllPlugins\sr_Oblivion_Stutter_Remover.iniPlugins\weOCPS.dllPlugins\ComponentDLLs\BorlndMM.dllPlugins\ComponentDLLs\CSEPlugins\ComponentDLLs\debugMM.dllPlugins\ComponentDLLs\CSE\BatchEditor.dllPlugins\ComponentDLLs\CSE\BSAViewer.dllPlugins\ComponentDLLs\CSE\LipSyncPipeClient.dllPlugins\ComponentDLLs\CSE\ScriptEditor.dllPlugins\ComponentDLLs\CSE\ScriptEditor.Preprocessor.dllPlugins\ComponentDLLs\CSE\StdPreprocDefs.txtPlugins\ComponentDLLs\CSE\TagBrowser.dllPlugins\ComponentDLLs\CSE\UseInfoList.dll

I have run TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp for ages without any problems. What do you think may have changed that would cause this to now generate CTDs? I suppose it won't do any harm to disable and see if it makes any difference - will try (probably tomorrow).

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:59 am

When you ran on option 5 for heap replacement, did you raise the size to 1024?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:16 am

When you ran on option 5 for heap replacement, did you raise the size to 1024?

No - forgot to do that - will enable and try it out - thanks

Edit: Tried the suggested settings and still get the CTD

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:20 am

Just noticed your troubles mentioned earlier thought I would pop in and offer - try iHeapAlgorithm = 6 too

I dont know how many people are using it currently (I haven't looked in on the OSR thread for a while) but I think its now regarded as a stable option. I have been using it on both Laptop and Desktop (probably since it was introduced)

YMMV but I did notice in the OSR thread different people had success with one mode on their machine, but the same did not work on others with similar specs (and caused ctd's) - Worth a go anyway.

Edit: Nice machine by the way

(although you probably have a slightly different opinion right now)

Edit2: For some of the new OSR options to experiment with you also need a couple more component.dll's you dont have listed, cant remember if they are included in the RC or you also need to download the optional file.

Just had a few searches - There was something about SSD's but I cant for the life of me recall what it was ... will sleep on it.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:53 am

I have recently got a new PC and have been experiencing problems with CTDs.

Changes to my original config include having Oblivion installed on a solid state disk (SSD), Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit on a different SSD and the save games on a normal disk drive (ie thgere are three drives involved).

Interesting ....thats looks sweet...3 drives..
New System....Has it been stress tested??.
Have all the Drives been defragged ? Especially the Drive that would have your Bash patch.

Oblivion can be a serious PIG if allow to be. I found the Final piece to the Puzzle for me, was to add in HFT_PCB. Seamed that after 2-3 hours gaming, My system would be at its MAX memory used! I have 8 gig installed and even if Oblivion its self was using 3.8 Gig, the System would creep up in usage till a Crash at or near 7.5 Gigs used. Using a Purge cell Buffer, Oblivion is relaxed and rarely goes above 2.5 Gigs used and the System hums along using 4-5 Gigs for 8+ Hours.

I can do a Torture test that has my UPS drawing 8 amps!!!
TO Kill a PC.....I have 4 cores (Seen as 8 threads)

Spoiler

I do not recomend trying this if you cant view your system TEMPS...CORE and VRAM. I can see temps on my keyboard. and Screen! Caution this WILL draw serious Power!!
4 cores Doing Prime95
Then Start Fliudmark (Benchmark ) Uses half my 560TI (window 600x800)
Then Start Furmark (alone can use 75-100 % of VRAM) (window 600x800)
Grins...now surf the Web and or Start Oblivion....Yes I did this and took screenshots at each stage. LMAO when Oblivion actually loaded.

Are you using any overclocks?

Edit to Add...I also use Heap 6 @ 1024 Open the INI for OSR Turn on Benchmark...try all the Differant HEAPS. All you have to to is Launch oblivion. the benchmark is run @ the Main menu (it will Pause for 3-5 seconds) then just close Oblivion. The Benchmark is saved in the OSR log. See what is Fastest on your Machine. funny to see the different speeds...

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:21 am

Yes, apparently I've also been using mode 6 @ 1024 for some time now. So for me modes 5 and 6 both work as long as they're at 1024. No higher, and no lower.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:46 am

I didn't see your soundcard info listed (onboard realtek?), but it might be worth trying some experiments with your audio setup. Try disabling audio and/or turning off hardware acceleration in the ini. You might also look at your driver settings.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:13 am

Many thanks for your continued suggestions - really appreciate (and need) the help.

Thanks for the nice words about my new rig

Just noticed your troubles mentioned earlier thought I would pop in and offer - try iHeapAlgorithm = 6 too

Just had a few searches - There was something about SSD's but I cant for the life of me recall what it was ... will sleep on it.

Will try using OSR_4-1-24_RC and experiment with heap settings as suggested.

I did wonder whether running OB on an SSD could be causing an issue - although I can't think why it should.

New System....Has it been stress tested??.
Have all the Drives been defragged ? Especially the Drive that would have your Bash patch.

Oblivion can be a serious PIG if allow to be. I found the Final piece to the Puzzle for me, was to add in HFT_PCB.
Grins...now surf the Web and or Start Oblivion....Yes I did this and took screenshots at each stage. LMAO when Oblivion actually loaded.[/spoiler]

Are you using any overclocks?

Edit to Add...I also use Heap 6 @ 1024 Open the INI for OSR Turn on Benchmark...try all the Differant HEAPS. All you have to to is Launch oblivion. the benchmark is run @ the Main menu (it will Pause for 3-5 seconds) then just close Oblivion. The Benchmark is saved in the OSR log. See what is Fastest on your Machine. funny to see the different speeds...

18 hour stress test done before I started installing software on the PC
My non-SSD has been defragged - you don't defrag SSDs (which is where OB lives)
Using Quarn's PCB on Loading
CPU Overclocked (I think it is to 4.2 GHz), but only comes into play when the CPU is under heavy load - uses step control)
Didn't know OSR had a benchmark feature - will look into this.

Yes, apparently I've also been using mode 6 @ 1024 for some time now. So for me modes 5 and 6 both work as long as they're at 1024. No higher, and no lower.

Will be trying 6 once I have installed the RC version.

I didn't see your soundcard info listed (onboard realtek?), but it might be worth trying some experiments with your audio setup. Try disabling audio and/or turning off hardware acceleration in the ini. You might also look at your driver settings.

Sound: Creative X-Fi Audio Processor (WDM) (also added to OP)

Same card as my old machine (now my wife's new machine).
Will take a look, but I am running the latest drivers and do not have anything special setup on the sound card.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:45 am

I did wonder whether running OB on an SSD could be causing an issue - although I can't think why it should.

Ignore that, think I was just tired, everything I have searched since in relation to ssd's has been (as you would expect) positive, variable depending on manufacturer of the ssd but speed of loading seems to be consistently improved.

The only concern with ssd's is life expectancy - But you already know not to defrag such a drive so as to lessen the amount of access and increase longevity.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:26 pm

Update

I just tried OSR 4.1.24 RC and ran my usual test. Got past the number of transitions that resulted in a CTD before installing the new OSR - Yippee!!

Given that how soon it crashes seems to be dependent on the number of mods installed, I am going to start adding more mods and see how it goes - fingers crossed.

Will post another update after a lot more testing, but wanted to let you know that your help has certainly improved things - just hoping it has cured the problem

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:20 am

Sound: Creative X-Fi Audio Processor (WDM) (also added to OP)

Same card as my old machine (now my wife's new machine).
Will take a look, but I am running the latest drivers and do not have anything special setup on the sound card.

Not that I think it will have a bearing on your situation, but...

Running Win7 as you (now) are, do you have the Creative Alchemy utility installed? The one that lets you take advantage of X-fi hardware acceleration under Win7 and Vista? If installed, do you have an Oblivion Alchemy profile? (Mine is set to Buffers=4, Duration=25, MaxVoiceCount=128. At this late date I can't recall if those figures were researched or simply what Alchemy selected as stock values.) A very few of the cheapest X-fi don't host a hardware acceleration chip. I've no idea how Alchemy comes in to play with those, since mine is most definitely a hardware-accelerated model.

-Decrepit-

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:30 am

Running Win7 as you (now) are, do you have the Creative Alchemy utility installed? The one that lets you take advantage of X-fi hardware acceleration under Win7 and Vista? If installed, do you have an Oblivion Alchemy profile? (Mine is set to Buffers=4, Duration=25, MaxVoiceCount=128. At this late date I can't recall if those figures were researched or simply what Alchemy selected as stock values.) A very few of the cheapest X-fi don't host a hardware acceleration chip. I've no idea how Alchemy comes in to play with those, since mine is most definitely a hardware-accelerated model.

-Decrepit-

I don't have Creative Alchemy installed - on my last system I was able to prove that it was causing instability with WIndows 7 and even blue screens. So I am running without that at present, although I do have hardware accelleration enabled (separate card rather than onboard sound)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:21 am

Well now you are (fingers crossed) sorted - A couple of links for your 7 experience ...

http://www.lancelhoff.com/make-god-mode-windows-7-control-panel-pin-to-taskbar/#more-2311

Plus a few more here http://www.lancelhoff.com/category/windows-7-tips-and-tricks/

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:35 am

Back up to full mod install and no more CTDs!!!

My takeaways are that OSR RC should be released and that the DEP settings are well worth remembering

Thank you so much for your help.

alt3rn1ty, thanks for those links - got to say that I have been running Windows 7 since it was in Beta, so I feel pretty comfortable running it.