I am actually really really hoping the CK offers power and control unparrallel to what the GECK and CS offered. as for applying it to every NPC, I'm not sure there is an issue, just apply a base to each race and set those + level and NPC build (since their are no classes).


Its gonna be a Doozy, I take it the Race editor in the CS will be basic, having just the inventory, look and race. :/

That's pretty much my reaction too, and seems to be something close to the consensus of the thread. Fitting attributes into the game shouldn't be that difficult (with the proviso that I do understand the sort of work that goes into scripting, so that "not that difficult" is a relative measure rather than a simple descriptor), but balancing them in the game would be another order of complexity entirely. The game will certainly be set up to dole out and keep track of bonuses and penalties, so it should be relatively straightforward to hook into that system and dole them out at other times and/or for other reasons. But if the game is set up (as promised) to dole out a balanced amount of bonuses/penalties based solely on perks, then the inclusion of attributes would have to be as a part of the source of those bonuses/penalties, rather than in addition to them.

I woud think the simplest way to do it would be to make them roughly fixed from the beginning. I know this flies in the face of Beth's stated goals for the game, but Beth's stated goals for the game fly in the face of the way that many people prefer to play. If I create a Nord warrior who's strong and tough and quite literally dumb as a post (Hale started with 65 strength and endurance, from race, birthsign and preferred attribute bonuses, then I consoled his intelligence down to 10), then that's because I want to play a Nord who's strong and tough and dumb as a post. Access to attributes, even only at character creation, would add to the roleplay, and if it was only set at character creation, then it could be balanced with the rest of the perks right from the start. Script it so that an increase of X% to an attribute entails a decrease of X% of the gain from any perks that correspond with that attribute. Once set for a particular character, it would never have to be adjusted. You'd still certainly run into balancing issues, but that would at least tend to minimize them. But it might hamstring the character more than even many of those who desire attributes would want. I'm okay with it, but I don't know how many players would be. But - if the attributes can change over time, then the mod would have to keep checking attributes and keep adjusting perks accordingly, which would add to both the overhead and the complexity of balancing it.

Just some musings..... I have little doubt that someone much more skilled than I am will go ahead and do it, one way or another.....

I think the question is if we will still be able to create new skills and attributes like we could with the CS, as opposed to what features we don't know will be in the CK, because the CK is what the devs used to build the game, so if there are no attributes in SK it may be safe to assume there will be no Attribute section in the CK (I think it would be petty of them to diliberately prevent modders from being able to mod in attributes.)

but I think even if we can't achieve attribute mods via the CK there will be some one who makes a mod for it using things other than the dev tools, (like what was done with better bodies, for example).

and there were a few successful (the definition is subject to perspective because most of the skills that were modded were things like fishing skill or whatever) mod skills made, that were shared to the community, who know what was made by people who don't post their mods.

they exist, in the form of only 3 attributes, health, magicka and fatigue.



non-trivial actually means hard to do and not easily done.

I am not a good modder so I have no idea how difficult re introducing attributes will be to do.

THis is not going to happen.

Adding new skills and attributes to MW/OB is one thing, but adding a new menu and all the according changes for attributes would be beyond impossible. Its not going to happen for a very long time.



Complete misinterpretation.

The factors that attributes would normally modify are still present in the game.. player speed, jump height, melle damage, etc. What he's saying is that if attributes were added, the factors that they control would already be present in game.

That, and previously you had 8 different variables to choose from each having a value of between 1 and 100. Many, many, many different combinations available. If I am reading you properly sounds like you added things/modified things already present (If STR = 90 then..). It is not highly likely that the base Skyrim engine/mechanics utilizing the three base variables will allow "new" variables to be added, but if it does that's one solution as one can define the added variable. That or a whole slew of new "perks", each defining something an old attribute defined - if the editing tool allows additional perks/whatnot to be given at start-up/per level.

1. actually, there were mods in MW that had uniquely made UI, I am having a hard time remembering what ones because I never used them (a long time community modder would know the names) so arbitarily deciding something that has already been done is impossible....

2. the misconception is on your side, I said what you said, its true that all of what the old attributes did are still there, but they area packed into the SK three attributes;health, mana, fatigue, the promblem is that the system can't possible work the way it did before, wrapping all of the dexterous characteristic modifiers into fatigue will make theif characters carbon copies of assasin characters.

But we can add new menu in Obllivion with plugins for OBSE and some new XML, as well we can create classical Message Boxes to show attributes at beginning of modding.

I don't think we are going to hear any of the more experienced modders say that they either will or will not mod attributes until the game has come out (or more specificly until CK comes out)

I'd say it'd be awhile before we see anything usable. As noted by some of the posts so far, attributes are part of the game's core mechanics. Trying to add them in, let alone by scripting, would be a rather tough job.

I agree, this is something that will probably take a couple of months minimum after 11-11-11 and that's if the coding/scripting isn't complex.

Until then, you can kiss mechanics like Guild req's goodbye as if Oblivion was teetering on the edge, I expect any old joe blow to get in any guild, in morrowind, Attributes and Skills mattered, You tried to get in Aundae or Quarra? you'd better fit the requisits, one vampire clan focused on strenght and power, another magicka intelligence and prowess, PERKS are going to suite this?

pffffffft.

I just really hope we or whom ever can come up with a comprehensive addition of Attributes the only thing potentially stopping people from compeltely everything under the sun in one playthrough now is Faction rep.

Just ... Are you lying on purpose to make your argument feel better or did you even PLAY Morrowind or Daggerfall? Guild requirements were tied to SKILLS too on top of attributes. Without attributes, skills are still here to provide requirements. And that's the issue with attributes : skills do practically everything they did better.

But the worse is, those requirements NEVER prevented you from joining every guild because nothing prevented you from reaching 100 in everything in the first place.