So, I've used OBMM before, and Wyre Bash to sort my load order, but I've never used BAIN before. How complex is it?

ps. Sorry for the many questions. I've been away for a while, and finally got another copy of GOTY

I'd say it has a learning curve, but the general consensus is that it is worth it to take the time to learn it.

Most prefer Tomlong's site for instructions: http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/

I did attempt http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ about it too, but the feedback I got was that it was wordy. I disagree and think it not wordy enough.

A different approach is Alt3rn1ty's visual guide to Wrye Bash with sections on BAIN. Search nexus for Wrye bash pictorial guide (Can't link for some reason right now)

So there that is three sources for you. All my arguments as to why to use are in my thread.

If you know where pretty much everything goes in the data folder from a mod, esps esms textures\ meshes\ etc .. BAINs are a breeze. Check out the guide in my sig (although TESNexus has been down for quite a while today, I have it on TESAlliance aswell (just minus all the TESNexus screenshots - the pdf's there have the same content))

It has more of a learning curve than OBMM, but it's not complicated by any stretch of the word.

I'd recommend getting familiar with it. It has countless advantages over OBMM.

Yeah, having done just the switch myself after years of OBMM - it's not bad. Start with simple mods and work your way up from there. You'll be repackaging OMOD's into BAIN archives in no time I followed Alt3rn1ty's guide.

can i ask what is just the different between those 2 ?

Now that I switched to BAIN I don't understand why everyone said it was more complicated, I figured out how to use it on my own in a few minutes. OBMM is still good for installing mods that have alot of options like darkui darn though because I don't know how to use the BAIN wizards.

Search the work BAIN on tesnexus when it is up and you will get a few mods that Wrye packaged for BAIN use. DarnUI is one of them. Copying the textures and menus over from Dark DarnUI is easy and with a few minutes work you can have a fully BAIN darkdarnUI.

Selerna- Read the first post in my tutorial for what is different between the two.

Alt3n1ty's guide also explains how to convert DarkUId DarN to a BAIN installation. He used that as an example of how to convert a complicated mod for those that want to do that. I followed his guide and have dark Darn packaged for BAIN now.

To use a BAIN wizard, you just right-click on the package and select Wizard. The wizard will start running and select the packages for you as you make your selections at the prompts. At the end you tell it to implement the selections, then you just install the package. Now creating BAIN wizards does require one to learn the scripting language, which is currently undergoing a major overhaul.

If you want learn how BAIN works I suggest that you should use it to only install UOP since everyone these days always install UOP. That's is what Psymon just told you about a learning curve there is for BAIN and *abuse* http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/ to learn more in the http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=guides_mod_installation.

I too am a long-time OBMM user who last year took the plunge and converted to Wrye-Bash / BAIN. Wrye-Bash does indeed have a steeper initial learning curve than OBMM. But there's a reason for that. Simply put, it does much more, thus there is more to learn. But once over the hump its smooth sailing. You'll kick yourself for not making the switch sooner.

One of the hardest things for me to adjust to with BAIN was that its packages begin a level higher than OMODs. That is to say, my self-made OMODs were created so that, when extracted and viewed as a directory tree, the first visible directory is "data". The OMOD path to a particular mesh would look something like this:

xxxxxxx.OMOD
--data (housing any esm and/or esp)
----meshes
------architecture
--------Anvil
----------anvilfighterguild01.NIF

The same thing in a SIMPLE (as opposed to complex) BAIN package omits the "data" layer:

xxxxxxx.7z
(loose esms, esps, readmes and possibly other files if present)
--meshes
----architecture
------Anvil
--------anvilfighterguild01.NIF

I borked quite a few early packages 'cause I'd forget and automatically create with "data" present in the structure. Easy enough to fix, but frustrating. It's all second nature now, but for a while it had me pulling hairs.


The other thing that confused me was/is that my concept of "lower" and "higher", as they apply to BAIN package install-order, is the opposite of that which appears in written BAIN instructions. Now, I understand how it works well enough. So long as I'm staring at the Wrye-Bash BAIN installers tab it all makes perfect sense. I've absolutely no confusion. But to this day, understanding it as I do, when I do research and come upon written instructions mentioning "higher" and "lower" it tends to momentarily confuse me. I have to tell myself, "Ignore this. Just think of it as you always do and you'll be okay."

I certainly have not yet mastered all that Wrye-Bash has to offer. For instance, I understand one can now install OBSE mods as BAIN packages. I hope to convert my few remaining OMODs (such as DropLitTorchesOBSE) at some point. But I've not yet stumbled upon detailed instructions on the conversion process. I'm sure it's very easy, but I'm not going to guess at it.

At any rate, Wrye-Bash is well worth the learning curve.

-Decrepit-

Er. Is it just some wacky version of Wrye Bash I'm using, or even perhaps my imagination, or is it no longer as fussy about the top directory as some have been stating in this thread?

Seems that way to me, anyway. :shrug:

I've accidentally installed a couple of things that had a Data folder and BAIN didn't care. Perhaps it's been fixed somewhere along the way?

I read your post and installed a mod I had not made Bain friendly yet, and it worked for me too.

Having an overarching Data folder is fine with BAIN packages.

This could well be the case with newer versions of Wrye-Bash. The version I originally converted over to would now be considered fairly ancient. It's also possible I was doing something else wacky at the same time as creating "data" folders, though that seems an odd coincidence. Sadly, those early "data"- containing packages were deleted so I can't see what else, if anything, was going on.

-Decrepit-

My highlight - That one sub-package can be called anything you want, even Data

I just consider sub-packages as separate selectable Data\ folders (with a unique name), each having whatever standard content you want, and each selected will overwrite the previous if it contains the same files.

lol..Way back when I took the plunge to convert all my mods to BAIN...that was one of the First mods I tackled.! The UI grates on my nerves and DarkDarn UI is even installed before the UOP!

I used it as a way to learn the ins and outs of BAIN. Install the Dark Darn as an OMOD. Load, Play, and Save a game slot. Look @ the Save in BASH. its Purple.
Now the Fun Part.
OBMM , Extract to folder. then uninstall the Omod.
The Fun starts here...open Bash and Look at your Save ..ohh RED. Now Create a BAIN that will turn that Back into a Purple Save without ever starting the Game! Thats how I learned BAIN! hahahah